Грађански рат у Украјини

[Ромејац]

Демонстранти преузели контролу над Кијевом

 

КИЈЕВ –Демонстранти у центру Кијева тврде да су преузели контролу над Кијевом и да је председник Виктор Јанукович побегао из града.

Јанукович је, према америчким извештајима отпутовао у Харков, центар области где има највише присталица. Према руским изворима он ће у Харкову учествовати на конференцији Партије региона из југоисточних делова Украјине.

Ноћ у Кијеву протекла је мирно, мада је стање и даље напето, јавиле су агенције. Полиција се повукла са својих позиција око зграда владе.

Према извештајима из Кијева, демонстранти су заузели вечину владиних институција, укључујући и Врховну раду ( парламент).

Демонстранти су синоћ извиждали опозиционе лидере који су изашли на бину на Тргу независности да представе споразум који су потписали са Јануковичем.

Неки су запретили да ће кренути у офанзиву ако опозиција не затражи да Јанукович данас поднесе оставку.

Председник Украјине Виктор Јанукович и вође опозиције Виталиј Кличко, Арсениј Јацењук и Олег Тјагнибок, као и представници ЕУ, потписали су јуче споразум о окончању кризе.

Споразум је потписан након тромесечних демонстрација које су ове недеље ескалирале у жестоке сукобе полиције и демонстраната у којима је од уторка погинуло најмање 77 људи, а на стотине повређено.

[Ромејац]

 

https://www.pouke.org/forum/topic/31957-neredi-u-kijevu-rt/page-51

[Zayron]

ovo si lepo postavio ...

 

kako to da se srpski toliko razlikuje od ovih ostalih slovenskih reci a one su za ostale maltene identicne ..

 

Bice da se u ovome ogleda slovenski uticaj na neki jezik kojim su srbi vec govorili ...

 

Ne razlikuje se, stvar je u vrlo složenom sistemu homonimije, u srpskom postoji divit se ali ima drugo značenje, znači čuditi se a ne gledati, svuda je masa takvih riječi, to je jedna od odlika slovenskih jezika, vrlo komplikovan homonimičko-sinonimički sistem itd. Radit se na slovačkom, češkom i ukrajinskom kaže pracovat a naše južnoslovensko radit Česima, Slovacima i Ukrajincima znači savjet (rada), savjetovat, posavjetovat (poradit), radni znači savjetodavni, savjetnik, radnica je vijeće itd. Poljaci kažu doradzać - savjetovat.

[Zayron]

Verhovna rada Ukraini

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BhDwl-8IYAAwBNN.jpg

 

Evo šta sam rekao, nisam ni gledao na tu sliku,

tek kad sam napisao taj post vidim šta je gore.

Verhovna rada Ukraini - Vrhovni savjet Ukrajine,

posavjetovat se - poraditsja na ukrajinskom, 

poradit se na češkom a poradit sa na slovačkom.

Kako sam rekao česki, slovački i ukrajinski su

dosta bliski, ja kad čitam razumijem skoro sve

jer ono dalje riječi što Čeh i Slovak ne razumije,

to ruski je opet slično nama dole južnim Slovenima

pa mi se sve to tako nadopunjava komplementarno.

Kosa se na primjer slovački i češki kaže vlasi al na ukrajinskom

se govori i vlasi i kosa, to kosa u dijalektima i staroukrajinskom.

A tu kosu ja ne trebam prevodit al Čeh i Slovak ne znaju šta je to.

Jeste li sad razumjeli kako je to s tom komplementarnošću?

[Justina]

Rusija je neuporedivo jaca nego prije 10 godina. Inace, i ne mora sama da intervenise, moze to odraditi preko ukrajinske vojske.

Galicija je poznata po nacizmu i patoloskoj mrznji prema Rusima.

 

Najnovija info:

23.48 - Виктор Јанукович напустио Кијев и отишао на исток Украјине, јавља rt.com. Јанукович се, највероватније, налази у Харкову.

 

Galicija je nekada ( do Hitlera) bila zemlja Jevreja, Lavov je bio nekako glavni jevrejski grad.

I ti sada ovde pricas o nekakvoj nacistickoj patoloskoj mrznji prema Rusima.

Pa gde ti vidis bilo kakvu vezu? Ukoliko uopste i razumes da je Lavov bio Lemberg, ukoliko

si ikada ista citao, a sto nema obavezno veze sa SPC i srpskom istorijom?

Galicija je bila deo K+K monarhije, sloboda je tamo vladala, kao i u Pragu, pa i u Vojvodini,

Jevreji su mogli slobodno da disu, ali su u Trecem Rajhu, iz cista mira se daj deo Poljske poklanja

SSSR-u, uostalom jedna trecina Ukrajine je nekadasnja Poljska i sada ti pricas o nacistima?

[Ромејац]

uostalom jedna trecina Ukrajine je nekadasnja Poljska

 

 

Север Француске је некадашња Енглеска, Цела Италија је некадашња Француска (за време Наполеона), југ Италије је некадашња Шпанија такође је и некадашња Арапска држава, Србија је некадашња Турска (као и цели Блиски Исток, Северна Африка, Балкан, Мађарска (тада Угарска) и део Аустрије, Централни део Русије (Москва) је некадашња Татарска држава. Петровград (Санкт Петербург) је некадашња Шведска, Холандија је некадашња Шпанија... 

[Ромејац]

 

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/zyalt/10761149/376458/376458_600.jpg

[Zayron]

 

Karta potpore prema glasanju:

Timošenkove crveno k zelenom

i Janukoviča - plavo k zelenom

 

Problem Ukrajine je taj što se jezički, kulturno, istorijski i konfesionalno dijeli na dva dijela. 

Kako idemo sa zapada na istok tako se od ukrajinskog prelazi na sve više ruskofono  područje.

Taj gornji i srednji, tj. zapadni, sjeverni i centralni dio je vrlo različit od tog istočnog i južnog.

Zapadni Ukrajinci samo sebe smatraju pravim Ukrajincima jer i govore zaista ukrajinskim jezikom.

U istočnom i južnom dijelu preovlađije ruski jezik a oni se smatraju većinom ukrajinskim Rusima.

Inače Moskalima Ukrajinci nazivaju osim ukrajinskih Rusa svoje Ukrajince, privržence i saveznike Rusa

tj. ruske zaprodance, smatraju ih najblaže rečeno nepatriotima, izdajicama Ukrajine i ruskim poltronima.

Nešto slično kad bi Srbe zbog te povezanosti s Rusima zvali recimo "rusacima" svi ostali okolo na Balkanu.

Ili kao što su na primjer Slovaci one svoje Slovake, simpatizere Čeha koji su s njima htjeli bit u jednoj istoj

državi zvali Čehunjima. Dajem to samo kao primjer da shvatite i čemu se radi i kad nije sasvim to uporedivo.

To trvenje među zapadnim Ukrajincima koji sebe smatraju pravim jedinim ukrajinskim patriotima i čistim

Ukrajincima i među tim stanovništvom jugoistočne Ukrajine koji su 50% i više Rusima ili rusofilnim Ukrajincima

je zaista vrlo veliko. Zato može to dopast vrlo lako ili mirnom podjelom na zapadnu i istočnu Ukrajinu ili građanskim

ratom u slučaju da se na tome ne shodnu politički i da se upetljaju u to Rusija, EU, USA, NATO i ne znam ko sve još dalje.

 

A s tim će to tamo uvijek biti nerješiv problem, pat pozicija:

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2014/01/20140122_ukr_0.png

[Milan Nikolic]

Mnogi jezici su stvarno problem.

[Ромејац]

AN INTERVIEW WITH MIRA, ANDREI, AND SASCHA OF ANTIFASCIST ACTION UKRAINE

 

A group of Defense Militia members at EuroMaidan. On the left one gives a Nazi salute.

 

Sascha, Andrei, and Mira are members of AntiFascist Union Ukraine, a group that monitors and fights fascism in Ukraine. We sat down to talk about the influence of fascism in EuroMaidan, this is what they told me:

Sascha: There are lots of Nationalists here, including Nazis. They came from all over Ukraine, and they make up about 30% of protesters.

Mira: The two biggest groups are Svoboda and Pravy Sektor (Right Sector). The defense forces aren’t 100% Pravy but a large percentage is.

S: Svoboda is more legal as a group, but they also have an illegal militant faction. Pravy Sektor is more illegal, but they want to usurp Svoboda.

M: There’s a lot of infighting between Pravy and Svoboda. They worked together during the violence but now everything is calm so there’s time to focus on each other. Pravy and Svoboda both take donations and they have lots of money. Recently Pravy has all these new uniforms, military fatigues.
One of the worst things is that Pravy has this official structure. They are coordinated. You need passes to go certain places. They have the power to give or not give people permission to be active. We’re trying to be active but we have to avoid Nazis, and I’m not going to ask a Nazi for permission!

S: A group of 100 anarchists tried to arrange their own self-defense group, different Anarchist groups came together for a meeting on the Maidan. While they were meeting a group of Nazis came in a larger group, they had axes and baseball bats and sticks, helmets, they said it was their territory. They called the Anarchists things like Jews, blacks, Communists. There weren’t even any Communists, that was just an insult. The Anarchists weren’t expecting this and they left. People with other political views can’t stay in certain places, they aren’t tolerated.

M: Early on a Stalinist tent was attacked by Nazis. One was sent to the hospital. Another student spoke out against fascism and he was attacked.
Pravy Sektor got too much attention after the first violence, the media gave them popularity and they started to think they’re cool guys. Pravy existed before but now it’s growing and attracting a lot of new people.

S: After this Pravy will have more young guys. They have money to make propaganda, uniforms, they’re getting more attention and they look cool.

 

A group of young men who recently joined the Defense Militia

 

M: The Ukraine is a patriarchal country so to be a strong man who’s fighting is a good aim.

Click Here to View A Recent Example of Pravy Sektor Propaganda

S: Nazi groups are also trying to mimic leftists, to try to ingratiate themselves. They use anarchist vocabulary, words like “autonomous.” One group of the ugliest Nazis is now doing this by calling themselves “Autonomous Resistance.” They’ve had lots of success with this tactic.
They attract some Anarchists who think they’re changing the Nazis, but really the Nazis are changing them.” They’re becoming more nationalistic, they have more more anti-feminist views, etc. Now is when Anarchists need to speak out and be louder.

 

 

Two symbols that could be found at EuroMaidan. The Celtic Cross (l) is a common symbol representing white supremacy. The Wolfsangel® was a symbol used by several divisions of the SS during World War II and now represents Neo-Nazism.

S: There’s a whole spectrum of Nationalists represented. They divide themselves into groups with their own symbols. They want support so they don’t use Nazi or fascist symbols so much. They use symbols that are recognizable to other fascistic people, but look innocuous to anyone else. For example there is a special eagle symbol. It’s drawn a certain way, it doesn’t look like anything unless you know the meaning.
No one has any idea how this could turn out, what form a new government could take. The fascist groups don’t have common aims, they know what they’re opposed to, and that they’re opposed to each other, but they don’t all want the same things. If Pravy has positions in a new government that would be really dangerous but that isn’t possible, they aren’t powerful enough.

M: People have these chants: “Glory Ukraine,” “Glory to Heroes,” “Death to Enemies.” But who are these heroes, who are these enemies? I don’t think they have any idea. “Ukraine Above All” is one, just like they used to chant in Germany.

Andrei: I’m from Germany, and from my perspective it’s like Ukraine has had this nationalism since the fall of the USSR. The nationalist sentiment on Maidan is there to divide people. The East of Ukraine favors Russia, the West is nationalist. People are quite divided, but if you look at the whole country everyone has the same social and economic problems. If people saw that and came together that would be the most dangerous for Svoboda, or Yanukovich, or any political party. Svoboda and Yanukovich favor the same neoliberal policies that make life worse for Ukrainians.

M: These nationalists are here not for rights but for nation and it’s practical for leaders to encourage this, because a focus on nationalism lets them do whatever they want. It’s mostly working class and poor people at EuroMaidan, and their attention needs to be diverted to real problems. Lots of people want to manipulate the people here.

 

A sign hangs in a EuroMaidan tent: “Ultra-Radical Pacifist”

[Ромејац]

Washington Destabilizes Ukraine

 

The control freaks in Washington think that only the decisions that Washington makes and imposes on other sovereign countries are democratic. No other country on earth is capable of making a democratic decision.

 

The world has witnessed this American self- righteousness for eons as Washington overthrows one democratic government after the other and imposes its puppet, as Washington did in Iran in 1953 when the CIA, as it now admits, and as Ervand Abrahamian proves in his book The Coup (The New Press, 2013), overthrew the elected government of Mossadeq, and more recently the elected government of Honduras and many governments in between.

Currently Washington is working overtime to overthrow the governments of Syria, Iran again, and Ukraine. Washington has also targeted Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador, and Brazil, and in its wildest dreams the governments of Russia and China.

On January 26 Syrian government advisor Bouthaina Shaaban asked Wolf Blitzer, a propagandist for Washington and the Israel Lobby, on US TV why the US government, speaking through Secretary of Stare John Kerry, has the right to decide who is to be the government of Syria instead of the Syrian people. [Polls show that Syrian president Assad’s approval ratings exceed those of every Western leader.] Even the slimy Blitzer wasn’t slimy enough to answer, “because we are the exceptional, indispensable people.” But that’s what Washington thinks.

Washington will soon be back at work on destabilizing the government of Iran again, a habit I suppose, but for the moment Washington is focused on destabilizing Ukraine.

Ukraine has a democratically elected government, but Washington doesn’t like it because Washington didn’t pick it. The Ukraine or the western part of it is full of Washington funded NGOs whose purpose is to deliver Ukraine into the clutches of the EU where US and European banks can loot the country, as they looted, for example, Latvia, and simultaneously weaken Russia by stealing a large part of traditional Russia and converting it into US/NATO military bases against Russia.

Perhaps Putin, an athlete, is distracted by the Olympic Games in Russia. Otherwise, it is something of a puzzle why Russia hasn’t put its nuclear missiles on high alert and occupied the western Ukraine with troops in order to prevent Ukraine’s overthrow by Washington’s money. Every country has citizens that will sell the country out for money, and western Ukraine is overflowing with such traitors.

As we have seen for decades, Arabs and Muslims will sell out their people for Western money. So will western Ukrainians. The NGOs financed by Washington are committed to delivering Ukraine into Washington’s hands where Ukrainians can become American serfs and this integral part of Russia can become a staging ground for the US military.

Of all the violent protests that we have been witnessed to, the Ukrainian one is the most orchestrated.

On February 6, Zero Hedge, one of the intelligent and informed Internet sites, posted a leaked recording from the despicable Victoria Nuland, an Assistant Secretary of State in the Obama Regime. Nuland is caught discussing with the US envoy to Ukraine, Geoffrey Pyatt, Washington’s choice for who heads the next Ukrainian government.

Nuland is incensed that the European Union has not joined Washington in imposing sanctions on the Ukrainian government in order to complete Washington’s takeover of Ukraine. Nuland speaks as if she is God with the God-given right to select the government of Ukraine, which she proceeds to do.

The EU, as corrupt as it is by Washington’s money, nevertheless understands being made rich by Washington is no protection agains Russian nuclear missiles. Nuland’s response to Europe’s hesitancy to risk its existence for the benefit of US hegemony is:
“Fuck the EU.”

So much for Washington’s attitude toward its captive allies and the peoples of the world.

[Ромејац]

[Zayron]

To što zovemo danas Ukrajinom je predimenzionirana država koja je trebala po raspadu SSSR promjenit svoje granice. 1917 po raspadu Carevine je Ukrajina konstituisana kao jedna od socijaliističkih sovjetskih država u tadašnjim autentičnim granicama. U međuvremenu se od 1917 do pada komunizma 1989 i raspada SSSR ta etnička slika u jugoistočnom dijelu sasvim promjenila u korist rusofonog i rusofilnog stanovništva koji imaju mnoge veze sa Rusijom, od porodičnih do svih ostalih, kulturnih, ekonomskih itd. Greška je što se po raspadu SSSR nije napravio referendum, plebiscit i taj jugoistočni - plavi dio pripojio Rusiji a tek od tog drugog dijela napravila Ukrajina, Ukrajina je imala biti na desnoj obali Dnjepra a Rusija je imala uzeti sve na lijevoj plus Krim i Odesu. Ovdje čak i ta granica glasanja među Janukovičem i Timošenkovom ide dolinom Dnjepra. Greška je napravljena već 1989.

 

[Zayron]

Problem Ukrajine je taj što se jezički, kulturno, istorijski i konfesionalno dijeli na dva dijela: 

 

dodam još i industrijski, ekonomski i po mjeri zaposlenih:

 

siromašni agrarni, ruralni i nerazvijeni, zaostali sjeverozapad s visokom stopom nezaposlenih - to što nije plavo

i ekonomski bogati, urbani, visoko industrijalizovani i razvijeni jugoistok s niskom stopom nezaposlenih - to plavo

[Justina]

Север Француске је некадашња Енглеска, Цела Италија је некадашња Француска (за време Наполеона), југ Италије је некадашња Шпанија такође је и некадашња Арапска држава, Србија је некадашња Турска (као и цели Блиски Исток, Северна Африка, Балкан, Мађарска (тада Угарска) и део Аустрије, Централни део Русије (Москва) је некадашња Татарска држава. Петровград (Санкт Петербург) је некадашња Шведска, Холандија је некадашња Шпанија... 

 

 

Pojma nemam o kom vremenu pricas, a i ako pretpostavim da pricamo i mislimo na neko vreme od pre 500 godina

ti zaista nemas pojma ni o cemu, izuzev naravno o Srbiji koja jeste bila pod Osmanlijama.

Sredi se malo, saber8i dva i dva pa onda opali sa ovim nebulozoma koje i imaju veze ,ali samo ako se

posmatra danasnja karta Europe u zadnjih, barem 1000 godina, a ja sam samo pomenula

drugu polovinu proslog veka koja jel, bas i nije bila odavno.