Грађански рат у Украјини

[Тања1]

E, samo da vas zamolim, tema je preglomazna vec sad i tesko se prati, ovaj dijalog premestite ako moze na PP, da bi ovde ostalo koliko-toliko pregledno. Hvala.

 

Па шта нас молиш кад си већ обрисао поруке које су се дотицале искључиво теме. Ако је теби прегломазна, има коме није,  с обзиром да се тема бави искључиво најновијим информацијама из Украјине, мислиш има неко ко данас чита шта је било 22 јануара 2014. године?! Свашта. Оне што занима да студирају тему, даће себи времена да пронађу шта их занима.

 

Очигледно теби данас није добро.

 

Нек ти буде. Нема на чему.

[Agnostik]

Moral proruskih snaga je izgleda dosta veca od Ukrajinaca. 

 

Daj boze da slusaju cak ono sta ce Putin da kaze. 

[obi-wan]

Па шта нас молиш кад си већ обрисао поруке које су се дотицале искључиво теме. Ако је теби прегломазна, има коме није, с обзиром да се тема бави искључиво најновијим информацијама, мислиш има неко ко данас чита шта је било 22 јануара 2014. године. Нек ти буде.

 

Nisam ja nista brisao, ali znam da kad se ljudi zanesu u pricu mnogo tema ode u honduras.

 

A posto vas razgovor ne spada u najnovije informacije nego u licna razmisljanja i pretpostavke, onda se svakako slazes da to ipak prebacite na PP ili ostavite za neku novu temu, a ne ovde gde je vec sve kilometarski dugacko.

 

Hvala jos jednom.

[Тања1]

Nisam ja nista brisao, ali znam da kad se ljudi zanesu u pricu mnogo tema ode u honduras.

 

A posto vas razgovor ne spada u najnovije informacije nego u licna razmisljanja i pretpostavke, onda se svakako slazes da to ipak prebacite na PP ili ostavite za neku novu temu, a ne ovde gde je vec sve kilometarski dugacko.

 

Hvala jos jednom.

 

Наш разговор је спадао у најновије информације о ММФ помоћи Украјини, датум 12.02.2015, све поткрепљено линком, ако ти ниси обрисао моја баба сигурно није. Ја да сам на твом месту не бих баш толико била сигурна у себе...има на теми твојих претпоставки  и личних размишљања? Има.

 

Кад се човек лепо разговара ви обришете, кад се препире, ви пустите.

 

 

Кенобију нису данас све овце на броју. Ћао

[Ромејац]

Њујорк Тајмс:

 

A Bloody Retreat From Debaltseve as Ukrainian Forces Suddenly Withdraw

 

Ukrainian forces fought their way out of the embattled town of Debaltseve in the early hours of Wednesday, choosing a risky overnight breakout rather than surrender as they abandoned the town to Russian-backed militants.

President Petro O. Poroshenko said in a televised statement that he had ordered the retreat from Debaltseve, a strategic transportation hub where intense fighting raged in recent days despite a cease-fire agreement signed last week in Minsk, Belarus.

Mr. Poroshenko sought to cast the retreat in a positive light, but the loss of the town was clearly a devastating setback for the army at the hands of the separatists. Still, by avoiding capture, the soldiers who made it out also avoided handing the rebels a powerful bargaining chip.

Separatist leaders have insisted that the cease-fire agreement did not apply to Debaltseve, but no exceptions were mentioned when the deal was announced in Minsk.

 

Mr. Poroshenko’s decision, and his earlier refusal to hand over the town during the cease-fire talks, cost the Ukrainian army an unknown number of casualties. As the scale of the nighttime fighting around the town comes into focus, those decisions could prove contentious in Ukraine.

In a post on Twitter and in the televised statement from an airfield in Kiev, the Ukrainian capital, before leaving to visit the front line, Mr. Poroshenko called the withdrawal “planned and organized” and said Ukrainian troops had accomplished their mission.

As many as 8,000 Ukrainian soldiers were said to be in Debaltseve before the withdrawal. It was unclear on Wednesday how many survived and avoided capture. Mr. Poroshenko said 80 percent of the army’s units had left.

By midday on Wednesday, limping and exhausted soldiers were showing up on the Ukrainian side of the front lines in the conflict, describing a harrowing ordeal that began with a surprise 1 a.m. order to retreat.

“Many trucks left, and only a few arrived,” said one soldier, who offered only his rank (sergeant) and his given name (Volodomyr) as he knelt on the sidewalk smoking. “A third of us made it, at most,” the soldier said.

Others said that a majority, at least, of the soldiers who set off from the town in a column of about 100 trucks had managed to escape the encirclement, many of them straggling out on foot after their vehicles were blown up.

The order to retreat was kept secret until the last minute, and soldiers were told to prepare in 10 minutes and pile into the beds of troop transport trucks, according to Albert Sardaryen, a 22-year-old medic who made the journey.

The trucks lined up on the edge of town, Mr. Sardaryen said, while tanks and tracked vehicles formed lines on either side of the truck convoy to try to shield the soldiers. The column drove through farm fields rather than use a main road that had been mined, and the trucks kept their headlights off to make them harder to spot.

The column came under attack almost immediately, he said, and trucks started breaking down and colliding in the dark. By dawn, the column was strung out on the plain and taking fire from all sides.

 “They were shooting with tanks, rocket propelled grenades and sniper rifles,” and firing at the disintegrating column with rockets, he said. Dead and wounded soldiers were left on the snowy fields because there were too many of them to carry once the trucks were hit.

“We stabilized them, applied tourniquets, gave them pain killers and tried to put them in a place with better cover,” Mr. Sardaryen said of the wounded. Later, a Ukrainian unit from outside the encirclement drove in to try to retrieve the wounded, he said.

Mr. Sardaryen said he ran on foot for the final four miles or so. Many of the soldiers who made it out also did so on foot, though some trucks made it all the way through, he said.

Oleksandr I. Bogunov, an army private, said the order came to carry only what would be useful for the fight on the way out, and leave all other ammunition and weaponry behind.

Mr. Poroshenko’s order came after the separatists boasted of controlling the town on Tuesday, and after President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia suggested at a news conference in Hungary that Ukraine should accept its defeat at Debaltseve by the separatist forces, whom he described as “underdogs.” Russia is widely believed to be actively supporting the separatists.

 “Life is life; it just goes on,” Mr. Putin said. “No need to dwell on it.”

Andriy Lysenko, a spokesman for the Ukrainian national security and defense council, confirmed the retreat from Debaltseve on at a briefing Wednesday afternoon in Kiev, the capital. He said the pullout was nearly completed.

“Today the armed forces of Ukraine are conducting the organized, planned retreat of units of forces of the antiterrorist operation from the city of Debaltseve,” Mr. Lysenko said. “At the moment, almost 80 percent of the Ukrainian units have retreated from this sector and this operation is to be completed soon.”

Though the cease-fire agreement, which was negotiated by Mr. Putin, Mr. Poroshenko, Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany and the French president, François Hollande, was reached on Thursday, it did not formally take effect until Sunday. The leaders provided no real explanation of the decision to delay its implementation for about 60 hours.

Mr. Poroshenko has said that he was willing to accept an immediate halt in the fighting, and that the delay was at Russia’s insistence. That seemed to be a reflection of the advantageous position of separatist fighters on the ground in the battle for Debaltseve.

In any event, he delay provided a window for fierce and bloody combat, and when the cease-fire did take effect, it produced only a brief lull in the fighting.

Mr. Poroshenko spoke by telephone on Wednesday with Ms. Merkel and Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. about the continued fighting and the setback the Ukrainian forces had suffered.

Ukraine had asked its Western partners to apply diplomatic pressure to encourage the pro-Russian separatists to observe the cease-fire in Debaltseve, and to allow access for monitors from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe. Talks on the issue among the organization, Russia and Ukraine ended without results around 9 p.m. on Tuesday, and the order for the retreat came four hours later.

Mr. Poroshenko urged the United Nations Security Council to prevent further breaches by Russia and the separatists. In a statement, the Ukrainian presidential administration said that Mr. Poroshenko and Ms. Merkel condemned the cease-fire violations in Debaltseve.

“It is a cynical attack on the Minsk agreements,” Mr. Poroshenko said in the statement. “Today, the world must stop the aggressor.

[obi-wan]

ако ти ниси обрисао моја баба сигурно није

 

Ne, nisam ja nista brisao, a za to i imam sasvim dobar razlog.

[Ромејац]

Један занимљив коментар са интернета:

Слава Украјини. Наше трупе се победоносно повлаче, а непријатељ панично јури за нама.

[obi-wan]

Један занимљив коментар са интернета:

Слава Украјини. Наше трупе се победоносно повлаче, а непријатељ панично јури за нама.

 

[Ромејац]

[Ромејац]

Defeated Ukrainians take the 'road of life' on their retreat from Debaltseve

 

Dispatch: Military disaster for Ukraine as defeated soldiers flee Debaltseve, while pro-Russian rebels raise their flag over the town marking the end of month-long battle

They came on trucks, on foot, and perched on the top of battered armoured personnel carriers.

The Ukrainian retreat from Debaltseve began early in the morning, and continued all day.

Late into the afternoon, artillery, armour, and soft-skinned lorries trickled up the E40 federal highway – the "road of life" that had been the only way in and out of the besieged town – bringing with them survivors of what has become a military disaster for Ukraine.

Some of the vehicles had smashed windows. Some had to be towed. And some didn't make it at all.

But these men were the lucky ones.

Petro Poroshenko, the Ukrainian president, said that 80 per cent of the several thousand troops estimated to be caught in the Debaltseve encirclement made it to safety after he gave the order to withdraw from their obviously impossible positions on Wednesday morning.

"Debaltseve was under our control, it was never encircled. Our troops and formations have left in an organised and planned manner," he said in televised comments.

"The Ukrainian troops ... gave a blow in the teeth to those who were trying to encircle them," Mr Poroshenko said at a Kiev airport as he travelled to eastern Ukraine to "shake the hands" of the soldiers leaving Debaltseve.

But the trickle of exhausted men and battered vehicles that continued to roll up highway E40 throughout Wednesday were the survivors of a crushing defeat from which that the Ukrainian army and Mr Poroshenko may struggle to recover.

Ukrainian officials later said 22 soldiers were killed and 150 injured in the break out, according to preliminary information.

Russian-backed separatist fighters trumpeted the final fall of Debaltseve on Wednesday, raising their flag over the town to mark the symbolic end of a month-long battle that has claimed an unknown number of lives and threatens to destroy frantic international efforts to broker an end to war here.

The fall of Debaltseve is a major victory for a Russian-supplied and supported separatist army that Nato officials now say is bigger than that of some European countries.

Fighting continued later on Wednesday, with artillery audible from the outskirts of the nearby town of Artemivsk. Access to Debaltseve itself was restricted by combatants on both sides

Hundreds, perhaps thousands, of troops were seen arriving in Artemivsk on Wednesday. But it is not yet clear how many men, and how much equipment, was left behind.

Josh Earnest, the White House spokesman, said it was clear that Moscow and Russian-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine had not lived up to the terms of the ceasefire.

“Their failure to do so does put them at risk of greater costs,” Mr Earnest said, noting that the White House supports the continued negotiations and had no update on whether the United States continued to consider supplying Ukraine with lethal weapons.

Some of the survivors who made it Artemivsk told a very different story to Mr Poroshenko.

"Only half of us got out," said a soldier with a head wound who declined to give his name. "People got out how they could, alone, together, in groups. The lorry I was in got hit on the way, that's how I got this," he said.

Others said there was no telling how many were still there.

"There is still fighting; some have been killed, some may have been taken prisoner. We don't know how many are left," said Sergei, a unit commander who said his men had been stationed outside Debaltseve for most of the battle.

Meanwhile, the rebels said 153 Ukrainian soldiers had given themselves up.

"It's an artillery fight. First they pound us with the big stuff. Then come the tanks, then come the infantry," said a member of the Ukrainian army's 13th brigade who rolled up the road to safety in Artemivsk on Wednesday afternoon. "They've got these Russian tanks – stronger, more modern than anything we've got."

"My company went in with 150 men. Of them, 45 are left," said the soldier, who gave his name only as Misha.

Semen Semenchenko, an MP and commander of the pro-Kiev Donbass volunteer battalion, wrote on Facebook that many dead had been left behind.

"One hundred and sixty-seven wounded have been taken to Artemivsk. They did not pick up a lot of bodies. I don't know the total figure," he said.

Questions are already being asked in Kiev about how several thousand troops were left in an obviously precarious position until they were encircled and defeated by superior Russian-backed forces.

Some believe the fallout could prove politically fatal for Mr Poroshenko's government, which has presided over a serious of military debacles since coming to power last year.

"Saur Mogila, Ilovaisk, the airport, Debaltseve," wrote Mr Semenchenko, citing a string of Ukrainian defeats dating back to last summer.

"These are not testament to Russian superiority, but of the massive heroism of the people's army and the gross incompetence, if not worse, of the high command," he wrote.

The disaster is especially painful because it is not the first, but the second time, that it has happened.

The failure to anticipate and respond to the separatist's textbook encirclement at Debaltseve has drawn instant comparisons to August's battle of Ilovaisk, which followed a direct Russian military intervention and forced Mr Poroshenko to sue for the peace deal that produced the first Minsk ceasefire agreement in September.

That defeat lives in infamy amongst Ukrainian soldiers, media, and the general public as an example of betrayal by their own generals, who failed to order a retreat or organise a counter attack, and the Russian-backed forces who ambushed a column retreating through an agreed "safe corridor," killing hundreds.

Memories of Ilovaisk have made many Ukrainian commentators weary of an offer by the separatist leadership to open a similar "green corridor" from Debaltseve if the Ukrainians laid down their weapons. Vladimir Putin backed that plan at a press conference in Budapest on Tuesday night.

Attention is now turning to the fate of the ceasefire elsewhere. With the Russian-backed separatist army dominant on the battlefield, there seems little to stop them from continuing their advance elsewhere on the front.

In a sign that Debaltseve may have satisfied them for now, however, the pro-Russian rebels said on Wednesday that they had begun to withdraw heavy artillery from other parts of the separation line agreed in Minsk.

"Five 152mm self-propelled artillery pieces are being drawn back from Elenovka district to their places of permanent deployment," said Eduard Basurin, deputy head of the armed forces of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic, naming an area to the south of Donetsk.

 

Local media said artillery was also expected to be removed from Yasynuvata and Telmanovo districts.

[Ромејац]

   

[Благовесник]

U duhovnom smislu Debaljcevo je novi Staljingrad  na kojem su slomili zube novi nacisti, fasisti, kvislinzi...

[Ромејац]

Хунта затражила од Савета Безбедности УН распоређивање мировних трупа...

 

Наравно тражили су да мировне трупе буду из западних земаља...

[Ромејац]

Дебаљцево

[Баба]

Бивша порно-звезда Саша Греј увучена у пропагандни рат између Украине и Русије

 

 

Бивша порно-звезда Саша Греј одбацила је своју глумачку каријеру да би као медицинска сестра помагала проруским побуњеницима који се боре у источној Украјини, када је брутално убијена од стране снага Украјинске Владе.

Тако барем наводе у анти-кијевској пропаганди уз фотографију Грејове која се појавила на руским друштвеним мрежама као што је Одноклассники.

The Moscow Times објашњава:

„Прича гласи да је медицинска сестра по имену Саша Шерова заробљена од стране Украјинских војних снага, који су затим правили снимке на којима је „понижавају“ пре него што су јој раскомадали тело секиром. Наглашавамо да је презиме Серова руски синоним за Греј (Grey).

Грејовој се, живој и здравој и уопште неукљученој у украjински конфликт, у коме је страдало више од 5.600 људи од почетка у априлу 2014, нимало не свиђа ова улога.

I <3 my Russian fans, but this propaganda takes it too far. News that I was a NURSE killed in the Russian/Ukraine conflict.

#fuckpropoganda

— Sasha Grey (@SashaGrey)

February 18, 2015

People are dying. People are losing family members & BS outlets mock the deceased with Fappery like this

— Sasha Grey (@SashaGrey)

February 18, 2015

I have love & respect for all of my Russian & Ukrainian fans, I wish there was more I could do.

#peace

— Sasha Grey (@SashaGrey)

February 18, 2015

 

Извор: http://vojvodjanskenovine.rs/bivsa-porno-zvezda-sasa-grej-uvucena-u-propagandni-rat-izmedju-ukraine-i-rusije/