Да ли жене могу да буду свештенице?

[Desiderius Erasmus]

The tradition of the Orthodox Church is not a static deposit but a life-giving stream. Culture is part of that stream. We move through history together. So to disregard the wisdom of the secular is not only impossible and intellectual dishonest but deeply unChristian.
That is to say, we change, but change takes time, especially in the Orthodox Church.
For example, not long ago, women did not take communion during their periods, but as our views about holiness and impurity evolve, this rule is gradually being ignored. I like this example because it illustrates that saying saying, “This is the way it has always been done,” carries a lot of weight in the Orthodox Church, but it does not make the argument. What we have always done still has to make sense.

For several decades now, some Orthodox Christians have been calling for greater public participation of women in the life of the church. This includes restoring the office of the deaconess and, for some, even opening the priesthood to women. The late Elisabeth Behr-Sigel was at the forefront of this movement. Even those who opposed her appreciated the way she challenged them to develop their own reasons for keeping women from serving behind the altar.

St. Thekla, Equal to the Apostles

For instance, Paul Evdokimov and Fr. Thomas Hopko originally said that women cannot be priests because they correspond to the the Holy Spirit, who “hides” behind the male Christ. But Behr-Sigel pointed out that this reasoning was tritheistic. Thus Fr. Hopko revised his position (I do not know much about Evdokimov). His latest argument is that a male priest is needed to establish a kind of iconic link to the male Christ. In a paper I published a few years ago, I said that this turned the sacrament into a kind of magical ritual by making it depend either on the gender of the priest (which is in a certain state of “flux”) or the sex of the priest, that is, his biological “equipment” (which is just silly).

Despite Fr. Hopko’s opposition to the female priesthood, he did say the matter remains an “open question.” Posts like Karissa’s show he is absolutely right. In my opinion, they show that we do need a diverse ministry to address our diverse parishes.

St. Nino, Equal to the Apostles and Enlightener of Georgia

So I guess you could say I am for the revival of the female diaconate and even a female priesthood. But I also recognize that I hold this opinion at a particular moment in history, and that a majority of my sisters and brothers, past and present disagree with me. But, for what it’s worth, the conversation about women’s ordination is not just happening among feminists and “liberals.” Orthodox scholars who once strongly opposed women’s ordination are becoming less sure of themselves. The most prominent is Metropolitan Kallistos of Diokleia, who says he is not convinced by any arguments for or against female priests. Metropolitan Anthony Bloom actively supported Behr-Sigel.
Of course, I am a lay theologian, so I can afford to be a bit more bold. After all, I never speak for the church. I speak from the church as one with the church.

I also speak as a father with a daughter who wants to know why she cannot be an acolyte. I respond that she cannot be an acolyte “for now.” Some will disagree with this and say I am giving her “false hope.” I understand that, but I do not think such hope is necessarily “false.” After all, the church once did give women a more prominent role in public ministry than it does today, and there is no telling where the life giving stream of our tradition may end up taking us.

[Bokisd]

Njet,.... nope.....nikako....nicht... non....niet....  ....    

[Desiderius Erasmus]

Пре сат времена, Bokisd рече

Njet,.... nope.....nikako....nicht... non....niet....  ....    

Zašto?

[Bokisd]

Mozda nesto ovako :

https://www.oikoumene.org/en/resources/documents/wcc-programmes/ecumenical-movement-in-the-21st-century/member-churches/special-commission-on-participation-of-orthodox-churches/sub-committee-ii-style-ethos-of-our-life-together/faith-and-order-on-womens-ordination

The place of the Woman in the Orthodox Church and the Question of the Ordination of Women" was the theme of an historic Inter-Orthodox Theological Consultation in Rhodes, Greece, 30 October - 7 November 1988. The consultation was organized by the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople in response to a request coming from the Third Pre-Conciliar Conference held in 1986, in Chambésy, Switzerland. That Conference proposed a study of "the issue of the ordination of women in order to promote relevant Orthodox doctrine in all her dialogues with Christian Churches and confessions proceeding with the ordination of women".3 The consultation reaffirmed the "male character of the sacramental' priesthood", citing "these ecclesiastically rooted positions":

a.  on the example of our Lord Jesus Christ, who did not select any women as one of His Apostles;

b. on the example of the Theotokos, who did not exercise the sacramental priestly function in the Church, even though  she was made worthy to become the Mother of the Incarnate Son and the Word of God;

c. on the Apostolic Tradition, according to which the Apostles, following the example of the Lord, never ordained any  women to this special priesthood in the Church;

d. on some Pauline teachings concerning the place of women in the Church, and

e. on the criterion of analogy, according to which, if the exercise of the sacramental priesthood by women were permitted, then it should have been exercised by the Theotokos (IV,14).⁴

 

Sto se tice ap. Pavla to je verovatno ona njegova prica da zena treba da bude poslusna muzu i da treba da cuti u crkvi i samim tim je jasno da ne bi trebale ni da imaju svestenicku sluzbu.

[Перезвон]

да.. и латиницом: da

[Bernard]

пре 4 часа, Desiderius Erasmus рече

Zašto?

Clement of Rome
 

Our apostles also knew, through our Lord Jesus Christ, that there would be strife on account of the office of the episcopate. For this reason, therefore, inasmuch as they had obtained a perfect fore-knowledge of this, they appointed those [ministers] already mentioned, and afterwards gave instructions, that when these should fall asleep, other approved men [not women] should succeed them in their ministry (Letter to the Corinthians 44 [A.D. 95]).

Tertullian

It is not permitted to a woman to speak in the church; but neither (is it permitted her) to teach, nor to baptize, nor to offer, nor to claim to herself a lot in any manly function, not to say (in any) sacerdotal office (On the Veiling of Virgins 9 [A.D. 207]).

Hippolytus

When a widow is appointed she is not ordained but she shall be chosen by name… Let the widow be instituted by word only and let her be reckoned among the widows. But she shall not be ordained, because she does not offer oblation nor has a ministry. But ordination is for clergy on account of their ministry. But the widow is appointed for prayer… (Apostolic Tradition1:4:5 [A.D. 215]).

The Teaching of the Apostles

We do not permit our 'women to teach in the Church,' but only to pray and hear those that teach; for our Master and Lord, Jesus Himself, when He sent us the twelve to make disciples of the people and of the nations, did nowhere send out women to preach, although He did not want such. For there were with us the mother of our Lord and His sisters; also Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Martha and Mary the sisters of Lazarus; Salome, and certain others. For, had it been necessary for women to teach, He Himself had first commanded these also to instruct the people with us. (3:6 [A.D. 225]).

Firmilian of Caesarea

But that woman, who previously by wiles and deceitfulness of the demon was attempting many things for the deceiving of the faithful, among other things by which she had deceived many, also had frequently dared this; to pretend that with an invocation not to be contemned she sanctified bread and celebrated, the Eucharist, and to offer sacrifice to the Lord, not without the sacrament of the accustomed utterance; and also to baptize many, making use of the usual and lawful words of interrogation, that nothing might seem to be different from the ecclesiastical rule (Fragment in Cyprian's Letters 74[75]:10 [A.D. 256]).

Council of Nicea

Likewise in the case of their deaconesses, and generally in the case of those who have been enrolled among their clergy, let the same form be observed. And we mean by deaconesses such as have assumed the habit, but who, since they have no imposition of hands, are to be numbered only among the laity (Canon 19 [A.D. 325]).

Council of Laodicea

Presbytides as they are called, or female presidents, are not to be appointed in the Church (Canon 11 [A.D. 360]).

Epiphanius

It is true that in the Church there is an order of deaconesses, but not for being priestess, nor for any kind of work of administration, but for the sake of the dignity of the female sex, either at the time of Baptism, or of examining the sick or suffering, so that the naked body of a female may not be seen by men administrating sacred rites, but by the deaconess (Panarion 79:3 [A.D. 377]).

John Chrysostom

[W]hen one is required to preside over the Church, and to be entrusted with the care of so many souls, the whole female sex must retire before the magnitude of the task, and the majority of men also; and we must bring forward those who to a large extent surpass all others, and soar as much above them in excellence of spirit as Saul overtopped the whole Hebrew nation in bodily stature: or rather far more (On the Priesthood 2:2 [A.D. 386]).

Apostolic Constitutions

I, the same, make a constitution in regard to virgins: A virgin is not ordained, for we have no such command from the Lord; for this is a state of voluntary trial, not for the reproach of marriage, but an account of leisure for piety (8:24 [A.D. 400]).

A widow is not ordained; yet if she has lost her husband a great while, and has lived soberly and unblameably, and has taken extraordinary care of her family, as Judith and Anna --those women of great reputation--let her be chosen into the order of widows (ibid 8:25).

A deaconess does not bless, nor perform anything belonging to the office of presbyters or deacons, but only is to keep the doors, and to minister to the presbyters in the baptizing of women, on account of decency (ibid 8:28).

For this is one of the ignorant practices of the Gentile atheism, to ordain women priests to the female deities, not one of the constitutions of Christ. For if baptism were to be administered by women, certainly our Lord would have been baptized by His own mother, and not by John; or when He sent us to baptize, He would have sent along with us women also for this purpose. But now He has nowhere, either by constitution or by writing, delivered to us any such thing (ibid 9:3).

Augustine

“[The Quintillians are heretics who] give women predominance so that these, too, can be honored with the priesthood among them. They say, namely, that Christ revealed himself . . . to Quintilla and Priscilla [two Montanist prophetesses] in the form of a woman” (Heresies 1:17 [A.D. 428]).

Council of Orange

Female deacons are by no means to be ordained. If there are any who have been already ordained, [illicitly] let them submit their heads to the benediction that is granted to the laity (Canon 26 [A.D. 441]).

Council of Chalcedon

A woman shall not receive the laying on of hands as a deaconess under forty years of age, and then only after searching examination. And if, after she has had hands laid on her and has continued for a time to minister, she shall despise the grace of God and give herself in marriage, she shall be anathematized and the man united to her (Canon 15 [A.D. 451]).

[Istopljeni kamen]

Ne.

[Драшко]

Ko je ova osoba?

[sanja84]

ne mogu, mogu samo da foliraju. Dobro deder, slava onima koje su tu ulogu imale, ali zna se da samo  očevi postoje. Žene su više muze.

[Natasa.]

пре 4 часа, sanja84 рече

ne mogu

Zašto?

[Вукашин]

пре 42 минута, Natasa. рече

Zašto?

Свако има своје служење у Цркви. Оно што се нама чини да је мало, можда се пред Богом покаже као велико.

[Natasa.]

пре 16 минута, Вукашин рече

Свако има своје служење у Цркви. Оно што се нама чини да је мало, можда се пред Богом покаже као велико.

O ovoj temi se godinama piše, nikad niko nije dao konkretan odgovor, samo odsečno NE!

[C.A._R.I.A.]

Oдговор лежи можда у питању ђакониса, јер су жене раније у току историје цркве биле ђаконисе, а никада није постојала институција жене свештеника.

 У том смислу, измишљати нешто што није утемељено у историји, нема никакве сврхе и зато једноставно је одговор не.

 То што су жене одиграле важну улогу као мироносице, или у неким деловима света као просветитељке читаве државе (као Света Нина, просветитељка Грузије), то је сад нека друга прича.

 Проблем је што смо заборавили на улогу жене као ђаконисе, али жена као предстојатељ сабрања је нешто што је незабележено, стога нема разлога да се о томе говори, управо јер свако има своје место у Цркви.

 Као када би се питали зашто су деца више везана за мајку него за очеве. Као када би тражили разлог да "изједначимо" улогу оца који је неретко у сенци улози мајке у многим породицама.

 Просто - не можемо да направимо знак једнакости када смо сви различити, а наши проблеми су генерално бројни, од тога да су нам цркве празне и да људи чекају да нема никог и да се помоле у цркви, и да има људи који иду редовно у цркву (да пале свећу).

 У последње време примећујем на поједине празнике како људи културно дођу до свих икона, целивају и изађу из цркве, проблем је што је то у сред богослужења, а они су били у цркви и отишли кући. Очигледно да нам фали веронаука за одрасле, и отклон од Блиц и Курир текстова "Данас је .... урадите ово".... Неким људима стварно треба едукација.

Кад видимо шта се око свега тога дешава, онда да пређемо на причешће, па онда на исповест, и просто када се позабавимо решавањем свих тих горућих проблема, на ове друге недоумице, просто је одговор - не.

[sanja84]

Nale to su Muska posla mi imamo pametni je stvari da radim. Ako ti ti bas prija, Eto imaš moj blagoslov, budi svestenica.

[emilija]

Za ove koji pitaju "zasto", neka odgovore zasto nema zena medju prvim (i docnijim) apostolima???