Упокојење, појам смрти....

[Milan Nikolic]

  Цитат

  На предходној страници, о.Иван је навео текст где се каже следеће:

  ,,Ствoрена бића су саздана не из претпoстojеће материjе нити из бoжанске суштине...''.

  То би било у реду, али није довољно то рећи, нарочито када је реч о ,,божанској суштини''.

  Слично би било као када бисмо рекли ,,да Свети Дух не исходи из Сина Божјег''. То је, додуше, у реду, али ако бисмо остали на томе, опет бисмо били недовољно јасни. Зато треба рећи ,,да Свети Дух исходи кроз Сина Божјег''.

  Због тога, када је реч о ,,стварању'', треба рећи да су створена бића настала не из божанске суштине, него ,,кроз божанску суштину''. Тачније речено, ,,створена бића су настала кроз божанску суштину ни из чега''.

  Није први пут да нешто аргументујем, а да тек после то нађем као потврду из светоотачке литературе.

  Сматрам да је питање ,,суштине'' - и све што је везано за њу - од највећег значаја. Зато ћу навести цитат од светог Григорија Паламе који је истоветан са мојом тврдњом:

  ,,Пошто постоји само једна беспочетна суштина - Божја, остале суштине су створене и настају кроз ову једину беспочетну суштину, једино способну да ствара друге суштине'' (Тријаде, београд-шибеник 2008, стр. 178).

[Макрина]

  Цитат

  Цитат

  На предходној страници, о.Иван је навео текст где се каже следеће:

  ,,Ствoрена бића су саздана не из претпoстojеће материjе нити из бoжанске суштине...''.

  То би било у реду, али није довољно то рећи, нарочито када је реч о ,,божанској суштини''.

  Слично би било као када бисмо рекли ,,да Свети Дух не исходи из Сина Божјег''. То је, додуше, у реду, али ако бисмо остали на томе, опет бисмо били недовољно јасни. Зато треба рећи ,,да Свети Дух исходи кроз Сина Божјег''.

  Због тога, када је реч о ,,стварању'', треба рећи да су створена бића настала не из божанске суштине, него ,,кроз божанску суштину''. Тачније речено, ,,створена бића су настала кроз божанску суштину ни из чега''.

  Није први пут да нешто аргументујем, а да тек после то нађем као потврду из светоотачке литературе.

  Сматрам да је питање ,,суштине'' - и све што је везано за њу - од највећег значаја. Зато ћу навести цитат од светог Григорија Паламе који је истоветан са мојом тврдњом:

  ,,Пошто постоји само једна беспочетна суштина - Божја, остале суштине су створене и настају кроз ову једину беспочетну суштину, једино способну да ствара друге суштине'' (Тријаде, београд-шибеник 2008, стр. 178).

То је то.

[suza]

otvorite temu kad ovo rijesite ,kako da ode smrt ne uvijeka kako usla  klapklap klapklap klapklap klapklap klapklap

[Александар Милојков]

Iskustvo bliske smrti plod je poigravanja svijesti

 

 

Doživljaji koji prate navodno iskustvo bliske smrti rezultat su promjena u normalnim moždanim funkcijama, tvrde britanski istraživači koji su analizirali postojeća istraživanja iz toga područja i zaključili da je iskustvo bliske smrti ‘samo u glavi’.
Psiholozi sa sveučilišta u Edinburghu i Medicinskog istraživačkog centra u Cambridgeu kažu da su ‘svjetla na kraju tunela, izvantjelesna iskustva ili susreti s preminulim rođacima’ tek plod igre svijesti, a ne uvid u život poslije smrti. Svi doživljaji koji prate takva iskustva mogu znanstveno objasniti odgovarajućim promjenama u radu mozga, piše BBC.
‘Naši mozgovi vrlo su uspješni u tome da nas zavaraju’, kaže znanstvenica Caroline Watt.
Istraživači su iskustva objasnili pokušajem mozga da da smisao neobičnim doživljajima tijekom traumatskih događaja.
Istraživanja su pokazala da mnoge osobe koje su proživjele iskustvo bliske smrti zapravo i nisu bile životno ugrožene, nego su samo tako mislile.

 

Sindrom Cotard
Jedna od najčešće navođenih pojava je svijest o vlastitoj smrti, no istraživači upozoravaju da se takvo stanje pojavljuje i u drugim okolnostima te je poznato pod nazivom sindrom Cotard. Uvjerenost da je osoba mrtva tako je uočeno nakon trauma ili tijekom uznapredovalih stadija tifusa ili multiple skleroze.
Za iskustvo lebdenja znanstvenici su utvrdili da se može umjetno izazvati stimuliranjem odgovarajućeg centra u mozgu, a i ‘tunel svjetlosti’ također se može umjetno izazvati. Primjerice o takvom doživljaju svjedoče piloti koji su u letu izloženim snažnim centrifugalnim silama, a istraživanja su pokazala da takve senzacije izaziva prekid dotoka krvi i kisika u oko.
Zaključci su objavljeni u časopisu ‘Trends in Cognitive Science’.


Izvor: http://www.znanost.com/clanak/iskustvo-bliske-smrti-plod-je-poigravanja-svijesti/#ixzz1cvnvjOUw

[Александар Милојков]

Шта мислите о образложењу? Да ли је конзистентно?

[Александар Милојков]

  Цитат

Iskustvo bliske smrti plod je poigravanja svijesti

Није ли свако наше искуство плод поигрвања, односно реакције наше свести?

[DYNABLASTER]

to bas htedoh reci, cuj "samo u glavi", pa sve je "samo u glavi"

jos jedan pokusaj naucnog merenja...

[Александар Милојков]

  Цитат

‘Naši mozgovi vrlo su uspješni u tome da nas zavaraju’, kaže znanstvenica Caroline Watt.

Пазите ову изјаву?! Наши мозгови нас заваравају? Кога заваравају? Нас. А зар наш мозак нисмо ми? Јесмо ли то шизофрена бића? Ко то у нама разумева, осим тог мозга? Мозак помоћу кога једино разумевамо нас заварава, а ми то знамо помоћу тог истог мозга!? Па како знамо ако нас заварава? Одакле знамо да нас не заварава да нас заварава? 0110_hahaha Каква небулозна реченица!

[DYNABLASTER]

ne znaju ni da se izrazavaju, a bave se ozbiljnim temama, micimm

izgleda da je njih malo zavarao mozak :lol:

[Александар Милојков]

Она горња реченица је невиђени circulus vitiosus.

[dragisa]

licno poznajem zenu koja je dozivela klinicku smrt. ima standardno iskustvo prolaska kroz neki tunel na kraju kojeg izlazi u nekakav predeo koji prema njenom opisu je kao u nekakvom polumraku, ona svo vreme zna da je rec o unmranju i iako ne zeli da umre ima neki prijatan osecaj i slast (kaze kao kad pojedes med), dole srece ljude koje je znala a koji su pokojni i koji zele sa njom komunikaciju medjutim ona se pravi kao da ih ne vidi jer zna da ako krene da se pozdravlja sa njima da ce umreti, u medjuvremenu dobija brojne elektro-sokove koje ne moze da podnese koliko su bolni i na kraju odlucuje da ipak zeli da umre, onda se seti da iza sebe ostavlja decu o kojoj nece imati ko da brine i krajnjim naporom pokusava da pomogne lekarima da bi primila poslednji elektro-sok, primivsi ga otvara oci, saopstava svima kako je svo vreme slusala sta se desavalo...itd, kasnije su dolazili brojni doktori da saslusaju tu njenu pricu i potvrdili da se radi o standardnom iskustvu klinicke smrti.

vise puta sam je molio da mi isprica sve iz pocetka i slusajuci je licno mislim da clanak koji si preneo mozda prilicno dobro objasnjava sta se ustvari desava u tim trenutcima sa svescu jedne licnosti. ono sto me utvrdjuje u takvom zakljucku jeste sto se na njij posle tog iskustva nisu videle nikakve drasticne promene niti u pogledu na svet niti u karakteru.

dakle mislim da je rec o slicnoj situaciji kao kad iscupas radio aparat koji svira iz uticnice, on nastavlja da radi jos neko vreme, dakle i ako mrtav jos funkcionise. samo sto ovde odma posle toga ga neko opet utakne u struju i on nastavlja da radi.

[DYNABLASTER]

  On 6. 11. 2011. at 14:37, dragisa рече

licno poznajem zenu koja je dozivela klinicku smrt. ima standardno iskustvo prolaska kroz neki tunel na kraju kojeg izlazi u nekakav predeo koji prema njenom opisu je kao u nekakvom polumraku, ona svo vreme zna da je rec o unmranju i iako ne zeli da umre ima neki prijatan osecaj i slast (kaze kao kad pojedes med), dole srece ljude koje je znala a koji su pokojni i koji zele sa njom komunikaciju medjutim ona se pravi kao da ih ne vidi jer zna da ako krene da se pozdravlja sa njima da ce umreti, u medjuvremenu dobija brojne elektro-sokove koje ne moze da podnese koliko su bolni i na kraju odlucuje da ipak zeli da umre, onda se seti da iza sebe ostavlja decu o kojoj nece imati ko da brine i krajnjim naporom pokusava da pomogne lekarima da bi primila poslednji elektro-sok, primivsi ga otvara oci, saopstava svima kako je svo vreme slusala sta se desavalo...itd, kasnije su dolazili brojni doktori da saslusaju tu njenu pricu i potvrdili da se radi o standardnom iskustvu klinicke smrti.

sad si mi dao odgovor na ono sto sam se pitao, hvala lepo

[grigorije22]

Sam naziv ,,bliska smrt,, je pogresan jer mrtav čovek nije ,,blizak smrti,, već je umro,mrtav je i svaka biološka funkcija,i aktivnost u mozgu mu je mrtva..ugašena zato sam naziv ,,bliska smrt je lažan,pogrešan,i miskonstrukcija od koje ovi isti polaze ....a čak ima i slučajeva POSTMORTEM ..gde su ljudi,posle smrti ...odnosno do 16 sati POSLE smrti,u rigor mortis stupnju,pa sve do i 3 dana od smrti,prijavljivali da su živeli,imali vantelesno iskustvo,putovanja,i čak i opisivali sve što im se dogodilo,kao i ono što su drugi radili oko njih,i čak i kilomentrima udaljeni od tela preminulih ...ima x poznatih slučajeva ...evo da čisto ovde postavim od strane naučnika koji su ovo decenijama i istraživali i pratili .....

[grigorije22]

People Have NDEs While Brain Dead

Dr. Michael Sabom Documents One of the Most Unusual Cases

Dr. Michael Sabom is a cardiologist whose latest book, Light and Death, includes a detailed medical and scientific analysis of an amazing near-death experience of a woman named Pam Reynolds. She underwent a rare operation to remove a giant basilar artery aneurysm in her brain that threatened her life. The size and location of the aneurysm, however, precluded its safe removal using the standard neuro-surgical techniques. She was referred to a doctor who had pioneered a daring surgical procedure known as hypothermic cardiac arrest. It allowed Pam's aneurysm to be excised with a reasonable chance of success. This operation, nicknamed "standstill" by the doctors who perform it, required that Pam's body temperature be lowered to 60 degrees, her heartbeat and breathing stopped, her brain waves flattened, and the blood drained from her head. In everyday terms, she was put to death. After removing the aneurysm, she was restored to life. During the time that Pam was in standstill, she experienced a NDE. Her remarkably detailed veridical out-of-body observations during her surgery were later verified to be very accurate. This case is considered to be one of the strongest cases of veridical evidence in NDE research because of her ability to describe the unique surgical instruments and procedures used and her ability to describe in detail these events while she was clinically and brain dead.

When all of Pam's vital signs were stopped, the doctor turned on a surgical saw and began to cut through Pam's skull. While this was going on, Pam reported that she felt herself "pop" outside her body and hover above the operating table. Then she watched the doctors working on her lifeless body for awhile. From her out-of-body position, she observed the doctor sawing into her skull with what looked to her like an electric toothbrush. Pam heard and reported later what the nurses in the operating room had said and exactly what was happening during the operation. At this time, every monitor attached to Pam's body registered "no life" whatsoever. At some point, Pam's consciousness floated out of the operating room and traveled down a tunnel which had a light at the end of it where her deceased relatives and friends were waiting including her long-dead grandmother. Pam's NDE ended when her deceased uncle led her back to her body for her to reentered it. Pam compared the feeling of reentering her dead body to "plunging into a pool of ice." The following is Pam Reynolds' account of her NDE in her own words.

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Pam Reynolds' NDE

The next thing I recall was the sound: It was a Natural "D." As I listened to the sound, I felt it was pulling me out of the top of my head. The further out of my body I got, the more clear the tone became. I had the impression it was like a road, a frequency that you go on ... I remember seeing several things in the operating room when I was looking down. It was the most aware that I think that I have ever been in my entire life ...I was metaphorically sitting on [the doctor's] shoulder. It was not like normal vision. It was brighter and more focused and clearer than normal vision ... There was so much in the operating room that I didn't recognize, and so many people.

I thought the way they had my head shaved was very peculiar. I expected them to take all of the hair, but they did not ...

The saw-thing that I hated the sound of looked like an electric toothbrush and it had a dent in it, a groove at the top where the saw appeared to go into the handle, but it didn't ... And the saw had interchangeable blades, too, but these blades were in what looked like a socket wrench case ... I heard the saw crank up. I didn't see them use it on my head, but I think I heard it being used on something. It was humming at a relatively high pitch and then all of a sudden it went Brrrrrrrrr! like that.

Someone said something about my veins and arteries being very small. I believe it was a female voice and that it was Dr. Murray, but I'm not sure. She was the cardiologist. I remember thinking that I should have told her about that ... I remember the heart-lung machine. I didn't like the respirator ... I remember a lot of tools and instruments that I did not readily recognize.

There was a sensation like being pulled, but not against your will. I was going on my own accord because I wanted to go. I have different metaphors to try to explain this. It was like the Wizard of Oz - being taken up in a tornado vortex, only you're not spinning around like you've got vertigo. You're very focused and you have a place to go. The feeling was like going up in an elevator real fast. And there was a sensation, but it wasn't a bodily, physical sensation. It was like a tunnel but it wasn't a tunnel.

At some point very early in the tunnel vortex I became aware of my grandmother calling me. But I didn't hear her call me with my ears ... It was a clearer hearing than with my ears. I trust that sense more than I trust my own ears.

The feeling was that she wanted me to come to her, so I continued with no fear down the shaft. It's a dark shaft that I went through, and at the very end there was this very little tiny pinpoint of light that kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger.

The light was incredibly bright, like sitting in the middle of a light bulb. It was so bright that I put my hands in front of my face fully expecting to see them and I could not. But I knew they were there. Not from a sense of touch. Again, it's terribly hard to explain, but I knew they were there ...

I noticed that as I began to discern different figures in the light - and they were all covered with light, they were light, and had light permeating all around them - they began to form shapes I could recognize and understand. I could see that one of them was my grandmother. I don't know if it was reality or a projection, but I would know my grandmother, the sound of her, anytime, anywhere.

Everyone I saw, looking back on it, fit perfectly into my understanding of what that person looked like at their best during their lives.

I recognized a lot of people. My uncle Gene was there. So was my great-great-Aunt Maggie, who was really a cousin. On Papa's side of the family, my grandfather was there ... They were specifically taking care of me, looking after me.

They would not permit me to go further ... It was communicated to me - that's the best way I know how to say it, because they didn't speak like I'm speaking - that if I went all the way into the light something would happen to me physically. They would be unable to put this me back into the body me, like I had gone too far and they couldn't reconnect. So they wouldn't let me go anywhere or do anything.

I wanted to go into the light, but I also wanted to come back. I had children to be reared. It was like watching a movie on fast-forward on your VCR: You get the general idea, but the individual freeze-frames are not slow enough to get detail.

Then they [deceased relatives] were feeding me. They were not doing this through my mouth, like with food, but they were nourishing me with something. The only way I know how to put it is something sparkly. Sparkles is the image that I get. I definitely recall the sensation of being nurtured and being fed and being made strong. I know it sounds funny, because obviously it wasn't a physical thing, but inside the experience I felt physically strong, ready for whatever.

My grandmother didn't take me back through the tunnel, or even send me back or ask me to go. She just looked up at me. I expected to go with her, but it was communicated to me that she just didn't think she would do that. My uncle said he would do it. He's the one who took me back through the end of the tunnel. Everything was fine. I did want to go.

But then I got to the end of it and saw the thing, my body. I didn't want to get into it ... It looked terrible, like a train wreck. It looked like what it was: dead. I believe it was covered. It scared me and I didn't want to look at it.

It was communicated to me that it was like jumping into a swimming pool. No problem, just jump right into the swimming pool. I didn't want to, but I guess I was late or something because he [the uncle] pushed me. I felt a definite repelling and at the same time a pulling from the body. The body was pulling and the tunnel was pushing ... It was like diving into a pool of ice water ... It hurt!

When I came back, they were playing Hotel California and the line was "You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave." I mentioned [later] to Dr. Brown that that was incredibly insensitive and he told me that I needed to sleep more. [laughter] When I regained consciousness, I was still on the respirator.

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For practical purposes outside the world of academic debate, three clinical tests commonly determine brain death. First, a standard electroencephalogram, or EEG, measures brain-wave activity. A "flat" EEG denotes non-function of the cerebral cortex - the outer shell of the cerebrum. Second, auditory evoked potentials, similar to those [clicks] elicited by the ear speakers in Pam's surgery, measure brain-stem viability. Absence of these potentials indicates non-function of the brain stem. And third, documentation of no blood flow to the brain is a marker for a generalized absence of brain function.

But during "standstill", Pam's brain was found "dead" by all three clinical tests - her electroencephalogram was silent, her brain-stem response was absent, and no blood flowed through her brain. Interestingly, while in this state, she encountered the "deepest" NDE of all Atlanta Study participants.

Some scientists theorize that NDEs are produced by brain chemistry. But, Dr. Peter Fenwick, a neuropsychiatrist and the leading authority in Britain concerning NDEs, believes that these theories fall far short of the facts. In the documentary, "Into the Unknown: Strange But True," Dr. Fenwick describes the state of the brain during a NDE:

"The brain isn't functioning. It's not there. It's destroyed. It's abnormal. But, yet, it can produce these very clear experiences ... an unconscious state is when the brain ceases to function. For example, if you faint, you fall to the floor, you don't know what's happening and the brain isn't working. The memory systems are particularly sensitive to unconsciousness. So, you won't remember anything. But, yet, after one of these experiences [a NDE], you come out with clear, lucid memories ... This is a real puzzle for science. I have not yet seen any good scientific explanation which can explain that fact."

"The modern tradition of equating death with an ensuing nothingness can be abandoned. For there is no reason to believe that human death severs the quality of the oneness in the universe." - Larry Dossey, MD

[grigorije22]

1.An example of the out-of-body component of the near-death experience is the case of Jazmyne Cidavia-DeRepentigny of Hull Georgia. She died on the operating table during surgery in late 1979 (pages 10-11, paperback version, "BEYOND THE LIGHT"):

"I must say that this experience was quite unsettling to say the least. I was floating over my body. I could see and hear everything that was being said and done. I left the room for a short while and then returned to where my body lay. I knew why I died. It was because I couldn't breathe. There was a tube down my throat and the medical staff did not have an oxygen mask on my nose. I had also been given too much anesthetic.

"In my out-of-body state, I'm using my mind to try and make my right arm and hand move - my arms are extended parallel to my physical body. I want my right hand to move, any thing to move. I was trying to pull the tube out of my mouth. I looked down at my face and tears were streaming. One of the nurses blotted the tears from my face but she didn't notice my breathing had stopped, nor did she see me next to her. At this point, I'm trying really hard to make my physical arm move, but it's like my whole body is made of lead."

Cidavia-DeRepentigny's determination in her out-of-body state to make an arm move finally paid off; and, with great clamor and commotion, the tube was pulled out, an oxygen mask attached, and her breathing restored. She had a similar near-death episode when she was hospitalized at thirteen, and again in 1991 when she faced death a third time. The more recent occurrence resulted from a nearly fatal bout with pneumonia, only this time she witnessed her own soul as a spirit residing outside of her body:

"I could see my spirit standing before me. My spirit was so beautifully perfect, dressed in a white gown that was loose, free-flowing, and below the knee. From my spirit there emanated a bright, soft-white halo. My spirit was standing six to eight feet from my body. It was so strange, for I could see my spirit and my spirit could see my pathetic body. I had not an ounce of color and I looked all withered and cold and lifeless. My spirit felt warm and so, so celestial. As my spirit slowly moved away, my spirit told my body goodbye, for my spirit saw the light and wanted to go into it. The light was like a circular opening that was warm and bright."

Cidavia-DeRepentigny spoke of feeling torn between two worlds - wanting to remain on earth while at the same time feeling a strong pull to unite with her spirit self and pass into the light. After another round of hospitalization, she was left confused and disoriented, ready to change her life yet hesitant to begin. She lamented about the lack of people she could discuss her situation with, although her church bishop did express some degree of understanding. Her lament is commonly shared by most experiencers.

2.The case of Robin Michelle Halberdier of Texas City, Texas, illustrates the overwhelming sense of love experiencers often encounter in the light. Her near-death episode took place in a hospital when she was between one and two months of age. Born prematurely, and with Hyaline Membrane disease, she was not expected to live (pages 12-13, paperback version, "BEYOND THE LIGHT"):

"My first visual memory was looking forward and seeing a brilliant bright light, almost like looking directly at the sun. The strange thing was that I could see my feet in front of me, as if I were floating upward in a vertical position. I do not remember passing through a tunnel or anything like that, just floating in the beautiful light. A tremendous amount of warmth and love came from the light.

"There was a standing figure in the light, shaped like a normal human being, but with no distinct facial features. It had a masculine presence. The light I have described seemed like it emanated from that figure. Light rays shone all around him. I felt very protected and safe and loved.

"The figure in the light told me through what I now know to be mental telepathy that I must go back, that it was not time for me to come here. I wanted to stay because I felt so full of joy and so peaceful. The voice repeated that it wasn't my time; I had a purpose to fulfill and I could come back after I completed it.

"The first time I told my parents about my experience was right after I began to talk. At the time, I believed that what happened to me was something everyone experienced. I told my mom and dad about the big glass case I was in after I was born, and the figure in the light and what he said to me. They took my reference to the glass case to mean the incubator. My father was a medical student at the time, and he had read a book about near-death experiences. From comparing the information in the book with what I told them, they decided that's what I was describing. My mom told me all of this years later when I brought the subject up again.

"I began attending church at the age of five, and I would look at the picture of Jesus in the Bible and tell my mom that's who it was in the light. I still have many physical difficulties with my health because of being premature. But there is a strong need inside me that I should help others with what death is, and talk to terminally ill patients. I was in the other world and I know there is nothing to be afraid of after death."

3.I found that both adults and children occasionally report being greeted on The Other Side by animals, especially if favored pets have previously died. But it is the children who describe an animal , some even insisting that they must go through it before they can reach the where people are. Adult cases can be equally compelling.

Several years before his death, Bryce Bond, a famous New York City media personality turned parapsychologist, shared with me the story of what happened to him when he once collapsed after a violent allergic reaction to pine nuts and was rushed to a hospital. He remembered suddenly passing through a long tunnel toward a brilliant light, and then (pages 13-14, paperback version, "BEYOND THE LIGHT"):

"I hear a bark, and racing toward me is a dog I once had, a black poodle named Pepe. When I see him, I feel an emotional floodgate open. Tears fill my eyes. He jumps into my arms, licking my face. As I hold him, he is real, more real than I had ever experienced him. I can smell him, feel him, hear his breathing, and sense his great joy at being with me again.

"I put my dog on the ground, and step forward to embrace my stepfather, when a very strong voice is heard in my consciousness. Not yet, it says. I scream out, Why? Then this inner voice says, What have you learned, and whom have you helped? I am dumb-founded. The voice seems to be from without as well as within. Everything stops for a moment. I have to think of what was asked of me. I cannot answer what I have learned, but I can answer whom I have helped.

"I feel the presence of my dog around me as I ponder those two questions. Then I hear barking, and other dogs appear, dogs I once had. As I stand there for what seems to be an eternity. I want to embrace and be absorbed and merge. I want to stay. The sensation of not wanting to come back is overwhelming."

Bryce was also greeted by all of his relatives who had passed on before him. He experienced these loved ones as somewhat younger in form and face than when he had last seen them, healthier and happier. He remembered racing backward through the same tunnel he had entered when it was time to leave and reviving in time to witness a hypodermic needle being plunged into his arm. "I heard a voice say, 'Welcome back.' I never asked who said that nor did I care. I was told by the doctor that I had been dead for over 50 minutes."