Упокојење, појам смрти....

[grigorije22]

4.Yet there are cases of "near-death-like" experiences that mimic those which occur during the trauma of death itself. One of those is the story of Julian A. Milkes. I met Milkes on a bumpy train ride to Long Island Sound, where I was slated to speak at a near-death study group meeting in Syosset, New York. He is a retired teacher, and was returning that day from buying concert tickets in Times Square. Here is what he told me (page 17, paperback version, "BEYOND THE LIGHT"):

"My mother and I were driving out to the lake one afternoon. My dad was to follow later when he finished work. We were having company for dinner, and, as we rode along, my mother spotted some wild flowers at the side of the road. She asked if I wouldn't stop the car and pick them as they would look nice on the dinner table. I pulled over to the right side of the road (it was not a major highway), parked the car, and went down a small incline to get off the road to pick the flowers. While I was picking the flowers, a car came whizzing by and suddenly headed straight for me.

"As I looked up and saw what I presumed would be an inevitable death, I separated from my body and viewed what was happening from another perspective. My whole life flashed in front of me, from that moment backwards to segments of my life. The review was not like a judgment. It was passive, more like an interesting novelty.

"I can't tell you how many times I think of that near-death experience. Even as I sit here and write my story for you, it seems as though it happened only yesterday."

Milke suffered no injury. The speeding car veered off just as suddenly as it had appeared, and sped away. I have observed that the terror of an ultimate end, the kind of terror that sees no hope, no other alternative except death itself, is sometimes enough to shift people into a near-death mode. Illness, injury, or body trauma is not necessary.

5.Seldom are suicide near-death scenarios hell-like. Contrary to popular notions, most suicide near-death experiences are positive, or at least illustrative of the importance of life and its living. Although I have yet to find a suicide experience that was in any way transcendent or in-depth, just to have something happen, anything that affirms that he or she is loved and special, seems miracle enough for the one involved. Near-death survivors from suicide attempts can and often do return with the same sense of mission that any other experiencer of the phenomenon reports. And that mission is usually to tell other potential victims that suicide is not the answer. For example, this young man (he asked not to be identified - refer to pages 18-19, paperback version, "BEYOND THE LIGHT"):

"Since then, suicide has never crossed my mind as a way out. It's a copout to me and not the way to heaven. I wish you luck in your research and hope my experience will help stop someone from taking his own life. It is a terrible waste."

Suicide near-death episodes can lay to rest problems and conflicts, explain away confusions, and emphasize the need to remain embodied. Experiencers usually return with a feeling that suicide solves nothing, and they are notably renewed and refreshed by that feeling, using their near-death event as a source of courage, strength, and inspiration.

But not all suicide scenarios are positive.

Some are negative, and these can be so negative that they upset the individual more than the original problem that precipitated the suicide. This kind of devastation can be transforming if used as a catalyst to help the person make the kind of changes that comprise constructive, long-term solutions. Such changes can come from an inner awakening, or from the fear that what was experienced may indeed herald the individual's final fate if something is not done to turn things around.

7.What happened to John R. Liona of Brooklyn, New York, is also typical of the initial experience (pages 24-27, paperback version, "BEYOND THE LIGHT"):

"Mine was a difficult birth, according to my mother. She said she didn't hear me cry after I was born because I was a 'blue baby.' They did not bring me to her for two days. My face was black and blue, and she said the skin was all cut up on the right side of my face. That's where the forceps slipped. I was given a tracheotomy to help me breathe. I am totally deaf in my right ear. Also, the right side of my face and head is less sensitive than the left. When I get tired, the right side of my face droops a little, like Bell's palsy.

"I am forty years old now. All my life going back to my childhood I can remember having this same recurring dream. It is more vivid than any other dream. It starts and ends the same - I am kneeling down and bent over, frantically trying to untie some kind of knots. They almost seem alive. I am pulling on them and they are thick and slippery. I am very upset. Pulling and snapping. I can't see what they're made of. I remember getting hit in the face while trying to untie or break free of the knots, and waking up crying. Then I would go back to sleep thinking it was only a dream or a nightmare. When the dream would happen again on another night, I would sleep through it longer, as I began to get used to it.

"After I am able to sleep through the knotty part, suddenly my struggling stops. I feel like a puppet with all the strings cut. My body goes limp. All the stress and struggle is drained right out of me. I feel very calm and peaceful, but wonder what caused me to lose interest in the knots. They were important one minute; the next minute I am floating in this big bright light. I know I can't touch the ground because there is light there, too. I look at the light and try to move toward it. I can't, and this upsets me. There is a woman in a long, flowing gown floating away to my left. I call and call to her but the light is so bright sound does not travel through it. I want to talk to the woman. My dream ends there.

"About a year ago, I walk out of my house to go to work. The ground is wet from rain, yet I find this book lying there - dry. No one is around, so I pick it up. The book is called 'CLOSER TO THE LIGHT,' by Melvin Morse, M.D., and Paul Perry. It is on the near-death experiences of children. That night I start reading it and cannot put it down. For the first time in my life, I now understand my dream. Those knots were when I struggled in the womb with the umbilical cord; getting hit in the face is when the doctor grabbed me with the forceps, then I died. After that, I went into the light.

"But, wait a second. You're not supposed to remember being born. We don't just sit around at parties and talk about what we remember of our birth. We only talk about what our parents tell us. I look forward to having my dream again. I'm ready now to experience more of it than before, and without being upset."

It can be argued that since Liona's birth was so intensely traumatic, his repetitive dream may be more of the trauma's replay than any memory of a near-death experience. And that argument carries considerable weight, as prebirth awareness is commonly reported and often verified. For instance, David Cheek, past president of the American Society for Clinical Hypnosis and a retired obstetrician, believes that humans are remarkably capable while still in the womb. He is quoted as saying: "Babies are at least somewhat aware from the moment their mothers become aware of their pregnancy."

Yet this supposition does not take into account the woman in the long flowing gown who is also part of Liona's dream sequence. The antiseptic uniforms of attending physicians and medical personnel do not explain away this "gossamer" figure, nor does the idea of a mental replay account for how these images have haunted him. Neither does it explain why, since earliest childhood, he has displayed the typical aftereffects of a near-death survivor.

What we are seeing here, and why I have used Liona's case as an example of the initial experience, is that current near-death research has shown that more and more children are being discovered who remember having had a near-death experience, either before, during, or after the moment of birth. This memory usually remains vivid in children's minds either from repeated storytelling after they learn how to talk, or because of repetitious imagery that intrudes upon their dreamlife, as in the case of John R. Liona. By the way, I have found that interviewing children can be as surprising as it is revelatory, for children seem able to hear parental conversations while still in the womb, and can repeat what was heard once they are old enough to talk - with embarrassing exactness.

8.The following story from Jeanne L. Eppley of Columbus, Ohio, may seem like another rendering of an initial near-death experience to you. Elements are few, and it is brief, as are the others I wrote about previously. But it is different. . . unpleasant (pages 30-32, paperback version, "BEYOND THE LIGHT"):

"My experience happened during the birth of my first child. For many years I blamed it on the anesthetic. I had three more children without pain because I believed that if there wasn't any pain, I wouldn't have to have anesthetics that caused experiences like this. Living proof of mind over matter, right?

"What happened was this: Everything was bright yellow. There was a tiny black dot in the center of all the yellow. Somehow I knew that the dot was me. The dot began to divide. First there was two, then four, then eight. After there had been enough division, the dots formed into a pinwheel and began to spin. As the pinwheel spun, the dots began to rejoin in the same manner as they had divided. I knew that when they were all one again, I would be dead, so I began to fight. The next thing I remember is the doctor trying to awaken me and keep me on the delivery table, because I was getting up.

"When my daughter was born, her head was flattened from her forehead to a point in back. They told me that she had lodged against my pelvic bone. But the doctor had already delivered two others that night and was in a hurry to get home. He took her with forceps. I've often wondered if my experience was actually hers, instead."

Although distressing to her, Eppley had this to say about her experience:

"I survived and became very strong. Before it happened I was a very weak person who had depended on others all my life. It constantly amazes me that people talk about how much they admire my strength. I developed a lot of character having lived this life and raising four children alone. I can honestly say that I like and respect myself now. I did not when the near-death experience happened. I believe maybe it was sent to show me that I could be strong. I certainly needed that strength in the years that came after."

She expressed disappointment that her case did not match all the wonderful stories other near-death survivors tell. A fellow experiencer suggested that maybe the reason for this was her refusal to "let go" and surrender to the experience, that the battle she had waged so fiercely may have blocked any further development of an uplifting scenario. This idea is not so far-fetched, since recent research suggests that "surrender" may indeed be the factor that determines not only depth of experience but who might possibly have one to begin with, i.e., people who refuse to relinquish the power of their will seldom report the phenomenon.

Yet, if you explore Eppley's life before and after her experience, a startling pattern emerges: This disappointing experience presaged two disappointing marriages, the birth of three more children, verbal and physical abuse, an attempt on her life, plus the ordeal of raising her family without support. The battle fear generated in her near-death episode was the first time she had ever stood up for herself. By her admission, the strength she gained from that fight enabled her to call upon deep reservoirs of power she never knew she had. Thus, wining one battle gave her the courage to win many. She has since remarried, and is now a radiantly happy woman. What was originally fearsome turned out to be a godsend.

Eppley's case is an example of why I challenge the surrender theory. Yes, research is persuasive on this issue: It does appear that people who fight the experience seldom have much of an experience, if any. Still, there is a question worthy of asking here, and that question is: Would Eppley have benefited as much as she did had her scenario been sweetly angelic? No one can say, of course, but the question is a valid one, for in asking it we broaden the base of our inquiry from concentrating on the event alone to an equal consideration of the one who experienced the event.

9.Gloria Hipple of Blakeslee, Pennsylvania, was brought to my attention by Gracia Fay Ellwood (an individual who is investigating hell-like near-death scenarios - refer to pages 32-36, paperback version, "BEYOND THE LIGHT"):

"My incident took place in August of 1955. I had been taken to Middlesex Hospital in New Brunswick, New Jersey, due to a miscarriage. Placed in a ward because I was a military dependent, the doctor who was to care for me never came. I was placed at a forty-five-degree angle due to bleeding and was left that way for almost eight days. No one heard my pleas. By the eighth day, I could not hear anyone, my eyes could not see, and I was later told that my body temperature registered 87.6 degrees. I should have been dead.

"I recall being pulled down into a spinning vortex. At first, I did not know what was happening. Then I realized my body was being drawn downward, head first. I panicked and fought, trying to grab at the sides of the vortex. All I could think of was my two children. No one would care for them. I pleaded, Please, not now, but I kept moving downward.

"I tried to see something, but all there was to see was this cyclonic void that tapered into a funnel. I kept grabbing at the sides but my fingers had nothing to grasp. Terror set in, true terror. I saw a black spot, darker than the funnel and like a black curtain, falling in front of me. Then there was a white dot, like a bright light at the end of the funnel. But as I grew closer, it was a small white skull. It became larger, grinning at me with bare sockets and gaping mouth, and traveling straight toward me like a baseball. Not only was I terrified, I was really livid, too. I struggled to grab hold of anything to keep me from falling, but the skull loomed larger. 'My kids, my baby is so little. My little boy, he's only two years old. No!' My words rang in my head and ears. With a bellowing yell, I screamed: 'No! damn it, no! Let me go. My babies need me! No! No! No! No!'

"The skull shattered into fragments and I slowed in movement. A white light, the brightest light I have ever known or will ever see again was in place of the skull. It was so bright yet it did not blind me. It was a welcome, calming light. The black spot or curtain was gone. I felt absolute peace of mind and sensed myself floating upward, and I was back. I heard my husband calling me, off in the distance. I opened my eyes but could not see him. Two doctors were at the foot of my bed - both were angry and compassionate at the same time. I was taken to the operating room, given several pints of blood, and was released one week later.

"No one would believe my handshake with the grim reaper. Scoffers almost put me in tears. Everyone laughed at me, including my husband, so I never told my story again - until I wrote to you. It was the most horrendous, yet the most gratifying experience I've ever had in my life."

A flood of memories poured forth once Hipple started talking about her experience, including a nearly forgotten incident that had occurred in 1943 when she had a tonsillectomy:

"Ether was the sedation used to put me to sleep. I recall being terrified by the mask and the awful smell. I can still taste it as I think about it. As the sedation took hold, there was the vortex, the dizzy spinning sensation, as I was dragged downward into sleep. I screamed, not knowing what was happening to me."

As she compared the two episodes, she recognized that the vortex experienced during surgical anesthesia in childhood was the same as the one she had encountered as an adult - minus the smell and taste. This association underscores what you find in medical literature. It is well known and documented that certain chemicals, especially ether, can cause vortex or spinning hallucinations. Missing from medical literature, however, is mention of anything more significant than this imagery. No attention is given to possible aftereffects (above and beyond chemical side effects). Hipple suffered no side effects from the sedation she was given in 1943, nor any aftereffects from being pulled into the vortex, except for a dislike of ether. But her adult confrontation with the same type of vortex did have aftereffects, the kind associated with the near-death phenomenon.

Unlike Eppley, Hipple's hellish near-death scenario was lengthy, intense, fully involved, and resolved in "heavenly" light. A dream? "Absolutely not!" She continues:

"My near-death experience has made me quite sensitive to many more things than my mind understands. It also helped me to be less serious about myself. I'm dispensable. I have discovered I do not value 'things' as I once did. I befriend people in a different way. I respect their choices to be the people they want to be. The same for my own family. I will guide, but not demand. As for the "Light" - it was then and remains so, my encounter with the most powerful of all entities. The giver of life on both sides of the curtain. After all, I was given a second chance. I am blessed and cannot ask for more."

A closer examination of Hipple's life reveals the sudden development of unique sensitivities afterward. The pending death of an unborn daughter was revealed to her in an usually detailed vision. When her husband died in a trucking accident at 4:15 am, she was up and prepared for it, and even heard a thump against her trailer home at the exact moment he was killed some distance away. Strange sensations about her sister awakened her from a deep sleep at the exact moment her sister died. "I am more sensitive to people's thoughts and actions than before. I follow hunches that are sometimes quite accurate."

Like Eppley, Gloria Hipple now glows with a special confidence, charm, and wisdom. She speaks effusively of God and angels. "The curtain, the darkness, the skull, the void, the terror, the anger, the fight, the light. There was nothing more than that, but it changed my life." Her hellish ex-experience transformed her from being dependent on outer circumstances and material possessions to the realization of greater truths and the power of inner peace. No drug-induced hallucination ever recorded fostered the kind of life-shift that happened to this woman, and she is one of millions.

[obi-wan]

Otac mog drugara iz srednje skole imao je ovakvo iskustvo...

U cemu je stvar: covek je primio inekciju ne znajuci da je alergican, i zadrzao se u hodniku ambulante da bi sa nekim drugarom razgovarao, a onda je iznenada pao, izgubivsi svest.

Nakon tog kratkog prekida (dakle, covek je trenutno izgubio svest), video je jasno sebe (tj. telo) iz vrha sale za reanimaciju (u kojoj naravno nikad nije bio) i kasnije do detalja opisao mesto, lekare (vecinu nije znao), njihovo ponasanje i odecu, razne predmete i instrumente, i jos dosta toga drugog.

I sve vreme (kratko je trajalo, mozda par minuta ili manje) gledao je jasno iz vrha sale, ne iz nekog drugog ugla.

Vazno je da se naglasi i da su oci na telu sve to vreme bile zatvorene.

Tako da je ovo objasnjenje prilicno bezvezno, jer ne uzima u obzir ovakva upecatljiva iskustva, kojih ima veoma mnogo po svetu.

[grigorije22]

[grigorije22]

[grigorije22]

[Александар Милојков]

Сада га и ти Григорије дотера до даске...Још само да видимо котлове и трозубце.

[obi-wan]

[grigorije22]

Сада га и ти Григорије дотера до даске...Још само да видимо котлове и трозубце.

Mnogi ljudi su videli i takve stvari poput kotlova i trozubca, i mnogi svetitelji su bili pod velik utiskom nakon onoga sto su videli u paklu.

E sada se samo postavlja pitanje kako su oni tumacili to sto su tamo videli.

[dragisa]

ovaj "to hell and back" i inje tako los tamo negde od 7 do 9 dela

[Александар Милојков]

Mnogi ljudi su videli i takve stvari poput kotlova i trozubca, i mnogi svetitelji su bili pod velik utiskom nakon onoga sto su videli u paklu.

E sada se samo postavlja pitanje kako su oni tumacili to sto su tamo videli.

Не сумњам да су видели. Међутим, виђења нису онтологија. Виђења имају за циљ да поуче, помоћу слика које човек разуме.

Мојсије је комуницирао са Богом преко запаљеног грма. Међутим, Бог НИЈЕ запаљени грма.

[Batman]

Kako neko moze da ima iskustvo smrti, i da onda prica o tome. Iz mrtvih se jos niko vratio nije osim Onoga koji ju je unistio.

Pre ce biti da se ovde radi o iskustvu umiranja bez da se zaista i umre.

By the way, klinicka smrt se i zove klinicka zato sto nije prava smrt, iz koje, baj d vej, nema povratka. Ima budistickih monaha koje kad upadnu u odredjeno meditativno stanje, onda ih zakopaju u zemlju pa posle par godina kad ih izvade, malo pranje malo ovo ono i ops eto zivi su.

Ali, pazi sad, kad dodju u neke godine ili ih lupi betonska tabla u vugla, nastupa smrt iz koje vise nema vracanja.

Dakle, ne postoji neko individualno iskustvo smrti o kome moze da se prica. Ko ima iskustvo smrti, on ti je bato umro i vise ne moze da prica ni o tome ni o bilo cemu ikad, nikad.

Iskustvo smrti, iliti mozda pre predukus smrti kao nebica sto ona i jeste, moguca je samo unutar licnih odnosa.

[DYNABLASTER]

pa naravno da nije smrt nego medjustanje tj "no man's land" :lol:

[Passenger]

pa naravno da nije smrt nego medjustanje

+1

[Александар Милојков]

Наравно. Иза праве смрти се још нико није вратио...осим Једног.

[Passenger]