Zašto narod sv. Kirijaka zove Miholj? (šta je Miholjdan?)

[Sir Oliver]

dakle zašto?

[Justin Waters]

Можда има везе што се у календару на овај дан помиње освештање базилике Св.Михаила крај Рима.

По народном вјеровању на св.Киријака буде лијепо и топло вријеме што означва крај таквог и почетак праве јесени, баш као што је јуче било .

[Euthyphro]

Koliko je meni poznato sama reč 'miholjdan' nema mnogo veze sa svetiteljem koga pravoslavna crkva slavi 12. oktobra. Etimologija je nesigurna, ali se pretpostavlja da se ta reč može odnositi na Svetog Arhangela Mihaila. Tako se npr. manastir svetog arh. Mihaila kod Tivta zove Miholjska Prevlaka ili Prevlaka Svetog Mihaila, mesto drevnog kulta nebeskih sila. Zanimljivo je reći da se na današnji dan u drevnim vremenima, među hrišćanima na zapadu, još pre nego što je zapadna crkva prešla na gregorijanski kalendar, proslavljao dan pobede Svetog Arhangela nad Satanom. Taj praznik je sada 29 septembra. Ovaj praznik ne postoji u Istočnoj Crkvi koja Svete Arhangele slavi 21 novembra. O ovom drevnom zapadnom prazniku i folkloru i verovanjima vezanim uz njega ima više npr. ovde: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michaelmas Tako da možda otuda ime 'miholjdan'.

[Zayron]

Koliko je meni poznato sama reč 'miholjdan' nema mnogo veze sa svetiteljem koga pravoslavna crkva slavi 12. oktobra. Etimologija je nesigurna, ali se pretpostavlja da se ta reč može odnositi na Svetog Arhangela Mihaila. Tako se npr. manastir svetog arh. Mihaila kod Tivta zove Miholjska Prevlaka ili Prevlaka Svetog Mihaila, mesto drevnog kulta nebeskih sila. Zanimljivo je reći da se na današnji dan u drevnim vremenima, među hrišćanima na zapadu, još pre nego što je zapadna crkva prešla na gregorijanski kalendar, proslavljao dan pobede Svetog Arhangela nad Satanom. Taj praznik je sada 29 septembra. Ovaj praznik ne postoji u Istočnoj Crkvi koja Svete Arhangele slavi 21 novembra. O ovom drevnom zapadnom prazniku i folkloru i verovanjima vezanim uz njega ima više npr. ovde: http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Michaelmas Tako da možda otuda ime 'miholjdan'.

U pravu si i tom prilikom se taj dan u čast Svetih Arhanđela

svečano moli takozvani Veliki Exorcizam Pape Lava XIII.

Saint Michael the Archangel (Chant)

Evo jedan katolički himan Sv. Arhanđelu Mihajlu u vizantinskom stilu.

This is the Prayer to Saint Michael the Archangel set to a traditional

Byzantine Chant. Recorded at Sainte Marie Parish, Manchester, NH.

Arranged by David Clayton and Paul Jernberg. Chanted by Saint

Gregory's Schola Cantorum, Sainte Marie Parish, Manchester, NH.

[Zayron]

A ovako izgleda taj Veliki Egzorcizam Pape Leona XIII koji se taj dan 29.09. obavezno moli:

Kod vas je Miholjdan zato 13 dana kasnije jer ste ostali pri Julijanskom kalendaru.

Prayer to Saint Michael Archangel

Prayer to Saint Michael Archangel

O glorious Archangel Saint Michael, Prince of the heavenly host, be our defense in the terrible warfare which we carry on against principalities and powers, against the rulers of this world of darkness, spirits of evil. Come to the aid of man, whom God created immortal, made in His own image and likeness, and redeemed at a great price from the tyranny of the devil. Fight this day the battle of our Lord, together with the holy angels, as already thou hast fought the leader of the proud angels, Lucifer, and his apostate host, who were powerless to resist thee, nor was there place for them any longer in heawen. That cruel, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil or Satan who seduces the whole world, was cast into the abyss with his angels. Behold this primeval enemy and slayer of men has taken courage. Transformed into an angel of light, he wanders about with all the multitude of wicked spirits, invading the earth in order to blot out the Name of God and of His Christ, to seize upon, slay, and cast into eternal perdition, souls destined for the crown of eternal glory. That wicked dragon pours out. as a most impure flood, the venom of his malice on men of depraved mind and corrupt heart, the spirit of lying, of impiety, of blasphemy, and the pestilent breath of impurity, and of every vice and iniquity. These most crafty enemies have filled and inebriated with gall and bitterness the Church, the spouse of the Immaculate Lamb, and have laid impious hands on Her most sacred possessions. In the Holy Place itself, where has been set up the See of the most holy Peter and the Chair of Truth for the light of the world, they have raised the throne of their abominable impiety with the iniquitous design that when the Pastor has been struck the sheep may be scattered. Arise then, O invincible Prince, bring help against the attacks of the lost spirits to the people of God, and give them the victory. They venerate thee as their protector and patron; in thee holy Church glories as her defense against the malicious powers of hell; to thee has God entrusted the souls of men to be established in heavenly beatitude. Oh, pray to the God of peace that He may put Satan under our feet, so far conquered that he may no longer be able to hold men in captivity and harm the Church. Offer our prayers in the sight of the Most High, so that they may quickly conciliate the mercies of the Lord; and beating down the dragon, the ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, do thou again make him captive in the abyss, that he may no longer seduce the nations. Amenn.

V: Behold the Cross of the Lord; be scattered ye hostile powers.

R: The Lion of the Tribe of Juda has conquered the root of David.

V: Let Thy mercies be upon us, O Lord.

R: As we have hoped in Thee.

V: O Lord hear my prayer.

R: And let my cry come unto Thee.

V: Let us pray: O God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, we call upon Thy holy Name, and as suppliants, we implore

Thy clemency, that by the intercession of Mary, ever Virgin, immaculate and our Mother, and of the glorious Archangel Saint Michael, Thou wouldst deign to help us against Satan and all other unclean spirits, who wander about the world for the injury of the human race and the ruin of our souls. Amenn.

Štovanje svetog Mihovila

Prema kalendaru Rimokatoličke Crkve, blagdan sv. Mihovila slavi se 29. rujna. Na taj dan slavimo i preostala dva arhanđela: Sv. Gabrijela i Sv. Rafaela.

Bogoslužje vrlo zorno ističe trostruku djelatnost sv. Mihovila u službi Crkve. On je borac, molitelj i pratitelj.

Molitva sv. Mihovilu se upotrebljava kao zaštita od zlih duhova i ta molitva je jedina egzorcistička molitva koja je dana na uporabu laicima uz dopuštenje Rimokatoličke Crkve.

Sv. Mihovila podjednako štuju i židovi i kršćani i muslimani.

[LukaZ]

Evo jedan katolički himan Sv. Arhanđelu Mihajlu u vizantinskom stilu.

meni to više liči na rusko pesnopenie ;

[Zayron]

meni to više liči na rusko pesnopenie ;

U pravu si, ja sam kriv, ja sam to pogrešno nazvao, naravno da znam šta je pravo originalno vizantinsko pojanje ali nisam htio sad komplikovat. Još bi na kraju ispalo da se pravim veći pravoslavac od vas, hahahaha! Da stvarno si u pravu, s tim razlikama sam ja dobro obeznamem, ali nisam pretpostavljao da ću naići na tako pažljivog i pozornog čitaoca i slušaoca kao ti, hahahaha! Odličan si!

[Zayron]

Inače mogu vam reći da sam se naslušao dosta baš tih engleskih i katoličkih i protestantskih horova koji pevaju (i ne samo pjevaju već i stvaraju, komponuju) neku svoju "istočno-hrišćansku" muziku, tj. onako kako je oni percepiraju i preuređuju je po svom ukusu pa na kraju to nije ni Vizantija ni Rusija nego nešto treće bliže njegovim engleskim horskim tradicijama. Zanimljivo. Nešto ko češki country u svjetovnoj miuzici, kad bismo već neku paralelu pravili, hahahaha.

[Zayron]

To isto rade i Njemci i Španjeli i Italijani a to dosta duga i uspješno,

evo kako izgleda jedna takva njemačka "istočna" horska kompozicija:

Choir of the Cathedral of Einsiedeln, Salve Regina

the track is listed as:

"anonymous/gregorian: Salve Regina", choir concerto in the Dome of Aachen,

recorded 1968 (!!!).

Choir of the cathedral of Einsiedeln

Choral Master: Pater Roman Bannwart

Organ: Pater Cornelius Winiger

Cond.: Pater Daniel Meier

think the "anonymous" expresses, that the piece comes out of the monastic tradition.

_____________________

Die Aufnahme wird wie folgt beschrieben:

Anonymus / Gregorianik: Salve Regina

Chor-Konzert im Aachener Dom

Aufnahme: 1968 (!!!)

Chor der Kathedrale von Einsiedeln

Chormeister: Pater Roman Bannwart

Organist: Pater Cornelius Winiger

Dirigent: Pater Daniel Meier

[Zayron]

Ili Italijani, njihovu jednu od monastičke zajednice, komunite di Bose, sam uzeo kao osnovu za svoj jedan propagačni video k tom Ćirilometodskom Jubileumu 1150 godišnjici početka Velikomoravske Misije. Tamo je zanimljivo da je podloga za muziku gregorijanska antifonalna korska monodija prerađena polifonim slogom i harmonizovana istočnim stilom, dakle totalni, potpuni hibrid jednog i drugog, zapadnog i istočnog pojanja.

Te Deum, Coro dei fratelli e sorelle di Bose

http://gloria.tv/?media=340618

[Euthyphro]

Veliki Exorcizam Pape Lava XIII.

Ako se ne varam tu je prelepu molitvu sastavio papa Lav po jednom viđenju što ga je imao tokom svete mise, kada je u duhu video borbu svetih anđela da sačuvaju crkvu od demonskih sila.

Molitva

Latinski:

Sancte Michael Archangele,

defende nos in proelio;

contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Imperet illi Deus, supplices deprecamur:

tuque, Princeps militiae Caelestis,

Satanam aliosque spiritus malignos,

qui ad perditionem animarum pervagantur in mundo,

divina virtute, in infernum detrude.

amen.

Hrvatski:

Sveti Mihaele Arkanđele,

brani nas u boju;

protiv pakosti i zasjedama đavolskih budi nam zaklon.

Neka mu zapovjedi Bog, ponizno molimo:

Ti, vojvodo vojske nebeske,

Sotonu i druge duhove zlobne,

koji svijetom obilaze na propast duša,

Božanskom krepošću i jakošću u pakao strovali.

amen.

[Zayron]

Ako se ne varam tu je prelepu molitvu sastavio papa Lav po jednom viđenju što ga je imao tokom svete mise, kada je u duhu video borbu svetih anđela da sačuvaju crkvu od demonskih sila.

Molitva

Latinski:

Sancte Michael Archangele,

defende nos in proelio;

contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Imperet illi Deus, supplices deprecamur:

tuque, Princeps militiae Caelestis,

Satanam aliosque spiritus malignos,

qui ad perditionem animarum pervagantur in mundo,

divina virtute, in infernum detrude.

amen.

Hrvatski:

Sveti Mihaele Arkanđele,

brani nas u boju;

protiv pakosti i zasjedama đavolskih budi nam zaklon.

Neka mu zapovjedi Bog, ponizno molimo:

Ti, vojvodo vojske nebeske,

Sotonu i druge duhove zlobne,

koji svijetom obilaze na propast duša,

Božanskom krepošću i jakošću u pakao strovali.

amen.

Da, u pravu si, evo šta o tome piše dalje:

Speculation about the origin of the prayers

Statue of Archangel Michael, University of Bonn, slaying Satan represented as a dragon. Quis ut Deus is inscribed on his shield.

An article in the Roman journal Ephemerides Liturgicae (V. LXIX, pages 54–60) in 1955 gave an account in Latin and Italian of how the St. Michael prayer developed. Footnote nine of this account quotes an article in another Italian journal called La Settimana del Clero in 1947 by Fr. Domenico Pechenino who worked at the Vatican during the time of Leo XIII, in which he stated: "I do not remember the exact year. One morning the great Pope Leo XIII had celebrated a Mass and, as usual, was attending a Mass of thanksgiving. Suddenly, we saw him raise his head and stare at something above the celebrant's head. He was staring motionlessly, without batting an eye. His expression was one of horror and awe; the colour and look on his face changing rapidly. Something unusual and grave was happening in him. "Finally, as though coming to his senses, he lightly but firmly tapped his hand and rose to his feet. He headed for his private office. His retinue followed anxiously and solicitously, whispering: 'Holy Father, are you not feeling well? Do you need anything?' He answered: 'Nothing, nothing.' About half an hour later, he called for the Secretary of the Congregation of Rites and, handing him a sheet of paper, requested that it be printed and sent to all the ordinaries around the world. What was that paper? It was the prayer that we recite with the people at the end of every Mass. It is the plea to Mary and the passionate request to the Prince of the heavenly host, (St. Michael: Saint Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle) beseeching God to send Satan back to hell."

According to the same article in Ephemerides Liturgicae,^[12] Cardinal Giovanni Nasalli Rocca di Corneliano wrote in his Litteris Pastoralibus pro Quadragesima (Pastoral Letters for Lent) that "the sentence 'The evil spirits who wander through the world for the ruin of souls' has a historical explanation that was many times repeated by his private secretary, Monsignor Rinaldo Angeli. Leo XIII truly saw, in a vision, demonic spirits who were congregating on the Eternal City (Rome). The prayer that he asked all the Church to recite was the fruit of that experience. He would recite that prayer with strong, powerful voice: we heard it many a time in the Vatican Basilica. Leo XIII also personally wrote an exorcism that is included in the Roman Ritual. He recommended that bishops and priests read these exorcisms often in their dioceses and parishes. He himself would recite them often throughout the day."^[13]

In the late twentieth century, more vivid stories circulated among traditionalist Catholics, according to which in that century Satan would be particularly powerful. They recounted that Pope Leo XIII was climbing the steps to the altar when he suddenly stopped, stared fixedly at something in the air and with a terrible look on his face, collapsed to the floor (some accounts say he fell shrieking). The Pope was carried off by those around him to another room where he came around. As one rendition of the story tells it:

"When asked what had happened, he explained that, as he was about to leave the foot of the altar, he suddenly heard voices - two voices, one kind and gentle, the other guttural and harsh. They seemed to come from near the tabernacle. As he listened, he heard the following conversation: The guttural voice, the voice of Satan in his pride, boasted to Our Lord: "I can destroy your Church." The gentle voice of Our Lord: "You can? Then go ahead and do so." Satan: "To do so, I need more time and more power." Our Lord: "How much time? How much power?" Satan: "75 to 100 years, and a greater power over those who will give themselves over to my service." Our Lord: "You have the time, you will have the power. Do with them what you will."^[14][15][16]

A variant of the story of the vision of Leo XIII was given by Father William Saunders in the Arlington Catholic Herald of 2 October 2003: "Pope Leo XIII (d. 1903) had a prophetic vision of the coming century of sorrow and war. After celebrating Mass, the Holy Father was conferring with his cardinals. Suddenly, he fell to the floor. The cardinals immediately called for a doctor. No pulse was detected, and the Holy Father was feared dead. Just as suddenly, Pope Leo awoke and said, 'What a horrible picture I was permitted to see!' In this vision, God gave Satan the choice of one century in which to do his worst work against the Church. The devil chose the 20th century. So moved was the Holy Father from this vision that he composed the prayer to St. Michael the Archangel.^[17]

The first variant of the story to appear in print was that in a 1933 German Sunday newspaper article, which stated that, as a result of the vision, Leo XIII, shortly after 1880, ordered the prayer to Saint Michael to be recited. In reality, it was only in 1884 that the Pope instituted the Leonine Prayers, still at that time without the prayer to Saint Michael.^[18]

In 1934, a year after the appearance of the earliest printed version of the story, a German writer, Father Bers, tried to trace the origin of the story and declared that, though the story was widespread, nowhere could he find a trace of proof. Sources close to the institution of the prayer in 1886, including an account of a conversation with Pope Leo XIII about his decision, say nothing of the alleged vision. Father Bers concluded that the story was a later invention that was spreading like a virus.^[19]

The story is also found in Carl Vogl's 1935 Begone Satan: A Soul-Stirring Account of Diabolical Possession in Iowa^[20]

In a later version the vision is said to have occurred on 13 October 1884,^[21] the year in which the Leonine Prayers were instituted without the prayer to Saint Michael. And yet another date, 25 September 1888, two years after Pope Leo XIII had added the prayer to the Leonine Prayers, was given in a 1991 version.^[22]

^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_to_Saint_Michael}

[Sir Oliver]

aj sad lepo molim administratore da pobrišu ovu gomilu teksta koja nema ali nikakve veze sa Miholjdanom, a da dotični odu na skajp i tamo ćaskaju, lepo sam postavio pitanje, nemoguće da na njega nema odgovora, očito je da je iz nekog valjanog razloga taj dan nazvan Miholjdan.

Kod hrvata su varijante imena mihovilo, miholj mihael i sve se odnose na arh Mihajla

[Justin Waters]

aj sad lepo molim administratore da pobrišu ovu gomilu teksta koja nema ali nikakve veze sa Miholjdanom, a da dotični odu na skajp i tamo ćaskaju, lepo sam postavio pitanje, nemoguće da na njega nema odgovora, očito je da je iz nekog valjanog razloga taj dan nazvan Miholjdan.

Kod hrvata su varijante imena mihovilo, miholj mihael i sve se odnose na arh Mihajla

Одговорено је да има везе са Архангелом Михаилом.

[Zayron]

Ili Italijani, njihovu jednu od monastičke zajednice, komunite di Bose, sam uzeo kao osnovu za svoj jedan propagačni video k tom Ćirilometodskom Jubileumu 1150 godišnjici početka Velikomoravske Misije. Tamo je zanimljivo da je podloga za muziku gregorijanska antifonalna korska monodija prerađena polifonim slogom i harmonizovana istočnim stilom, dakle totalni, potpuni hibrid jednog i drugog, zapadnog i istočnog pojanja.

Te Deum, Coro dei fratelli e sorelle di Bose

http://gloria.tv/?media=340618

Morao sam napraviti bar jedan takav "zapadni" ćirilometodski

video jer sam imao već tri istočna i ni jedan zapadni, hahahaha.

Taj zapadni je ustvari kako sam rekao apsolutni mix istoka i zapada.

Evo kako izgledaju ti "istočni" onda, naravno sa istočnom muzikom.

Saints Cyril and Methodius Proclaming Gospel to the Slavs, Moravia Magna

http://gloria.tv/?media=339979

Muzika istočna, slike istočne.

Uctievanie relikvie svätého Cyrila na Slovenskú

http://gloria.tv/?media=335183

Muzika istočna, slike zapadne.

Svatý Cyril a Metoděj - Saints Cyril and Methodius

http://gloria.tv/?media=335174

Muzika istočna, slike i zapadne i istočne.