Da katolik postane pravoslavac - zašto?

[Ignjatije]

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[Zayron]

Prostak je onaj koji zatvara oci nad silovanom decom. A naziv teme je zasto Rimokatoik postaje pravoslavac ja ti navodim razlog kao planina zasto rimokatolici postaju pravoslavni, ateisti, protestanti sve ostalo.

Prostak je takav katolik koji pravoslavnu Crkvu nazove mafijaškom organizacijom ili pravoslavac koji katoličku Crkvu nazove pedofilnom organizacijom. Takav kod nas ne može ni čistit nekakvu crkvu a kamo li u njoj biti sveštenikom. Jel sad sasvim jasno ko je to prostak?

Hrvatski sveštenik don Ivan Turić otvoreno je u svojoj propovedi veličao ustaštvo i hvalio Antu Pavelića, a partizane je nazvao "progoniteljima Hrvata".

"Godine 1941. Hrvatsku su stvorili Hrvati sa našim poglavnikom i ustašama. Četnici su nas hteli poubijati, da nas nema. Tito i partizani su im u tome pomagali. Zato četnici i jesu poubijali naše ljude na današnji dan pre 68 godina", deo je propovijedi ovog hrvatskog sveštenika povodom otkrivanja spomenika poginulima u Drugom svetskom ratu u biokovskom selu Rašćani.

AJDE MALO SMANJI DOZIVLJAJE I ZAMISLI SE ZASTO SAM RC U USA NAZVAO PEDOFILSKOM ORGANIZACVIJOM. I ZAMISLI OVO JE DOBRONAMERNA KRITIKA; JER ISKRENO STO VISE SE PONASATE KAO STO SE TI PONASAS OVDE CETE POSTATI NA NIVOU STATISTICKE GRESKE.

U USA JE PROSEK FGODINA KATOLICKOG SVESTENSTVA IZNAD 70 PA TI VIDI.

U redu, tvoje namjere su vjerovatno dobre ali sredstva, metode i načini tako dobri već nisu! Prema toj takvoj logici kad ja na primjer znam za slučajeve defraudacije crkvene imovine SPC od strane sopstvenog sveštenstva, recimo taj pop, sekretar iz Beograda što je isplundrovao bankovne račune SPC namjenjene izgradnji hrama Svetog Save na Vračaru i olakšao crkvenu blagajnu za multimilione ili monah Artemije koji je od same SPC sada optužen za prisvajanje i otuđivanje svega što nije bilo o nebesa pribijeno, kulantno rečeno, ja imam zato cijelu pravoslavnu Crkvu prema tom tvom rezonu slobodno "počastiti" tim takvim nekim nazivom "mafijaška organizacija" ili sličnim? No to mi ne pada ni na pamet, meni lično tako nešto, samo ti tim ilustriram da tako to nejde! Imaš grešku u koracima! A to veliku! Za popa ili svešteno lice i preveliku! To bi si ne dozvolio ni ne znam kakav laik tako nešto govorit a kamoli neko s teološkim fakultetom.  

[Zeebedee]

Brate sam si sebi odgovorio; ti ljudi su procesuriani; Artemiju se sudi a ti branis ljude koji siluju malu decu. da li znas da takve ljude ni u zatvorima ne smeju da puiste normalno jer ih i ubice preziru. A katolicki episkopi ih brane.

I opet po hiljaditi put; ja sam pedofiliju naveo kao razlog zasto RC ima velike probleme; umesto da mi pokusas odgovoriti zasto RC prikriva te zlocine ti me vredjas i skreces sa teme.

I jos jednom na pitanje "zasto katolik da postane pravoslavac" evo jednog odgovora:

US clerics (priests, deacons, bishops, etc.) accused of abuse from 1950-2002: 4,392.

About 4% of the 109,694 serving during those 52 years.

Individuals making accusations: 10,667.

Victims' ages: 5.8% under 7; 16% ages 8-10; 50.9% ages 11-14; 27.3% ages 15-17.

Victims' gender: 81% male, 19% female

Duration of abuse: Among victims, 38.4% said all incidents occurred within one year; 21.8% said one to two years; 28%, two to four years; 11.8% longer.

Victims per priest: 55.7% with one alleged victim; 26.9% with two or three; 13.9% with four to nine; 3.5% with 10 or more (these 149 priests caused 27% of allegations).

Abuse locations: 40.9% at priest's residence; 16.3% in church; 42.8% elsewhere.

Known cost to dioceses and religious orders: $572,507,094 (does not include the $85 million Boston settlement and other expenses after research was concluded). (Hartford Courant, 2/27/04)

[Zayron]

Brate sam si sebi odgovorio; ti ljudi su procesuriani; Artemiju se sudi a ti branis ljude koji siluju malu decu. da li znas da takve ljude ni u zatvorima ne smeju da puiste normalno jer ih i ubice preziru. A katolicki episkopi ih brane.

I opet po hiljaditi put; ja sam pedofiliju naveo kao razlog zasto RC ima velike probleme; umesto da mi pokusas odgovoriti zasto RC prikriva te zlocine ti me vredjas i skreces sa teme.

Ja branim u tome svakome takvome ko misli da mu popovi koji okradaju SPC mogu biti sasvim dovoljnim obrazloženjem kako bi istiu SPC nazvao "mafijaškom organizacojom", isto kao i svakom takvom koji misli da mu popovi i sveštenstvo koji zlostavljaju seksualno ili bilo kako dsrugačije bilo koga a ne samo djecu mogu biti sasvim dovoljnim obrazloženjem da katoličku Crkvu naziva pedofilnom organizacijom. To je to što ja branim! A na čemu se zasnivaju te tvrdnje o prikrivanju tačno? Napiši?

[Пајко]

To bi si ne dozvolio ni ne znam kakav laik tako nešto govorit a kamoli neko s teološkim fakultetom.  

Ако неко заврши факултет не значи да је културан, фин итд.

50 посто шанси има особа која заврши факултет да буде битанга, бараба итд...

[Zeebedee]

Brate sam si sebi odgovorio; ti ljudi su procesuriani; Artemiju se sudi a ti branis ljude koji siluju malu decu. da li znas da takve ljude ni u zatvorima ne smeju da puiste normalno jer ih i ubice preziru. A katolicki episkopi ih brane.

I opet po hiljaditi put; ja sam pedofiliju naveo kao razlog zasto RC ima velike probleme; umesto da mi pokusas odgovoriti zasto RC prikriva te zlocine ti me vredjas i skreces sa teme.

Ja branim u tome svakome takvome ko misli da mu popovi koji okradaju SPC mogu biti sasvim dovoljno obrazloženje kako bi istiu SPC nazvao "mafijaškom organizacojom", isto kao i svakom takvom koji misli da mu popovi i sveštenstvo koji zlostavljaju seksualno ili bilo kako dsrugačije bilo koga a ne samo djecu mogiu biti sasvom dovoljno obrazloženje da katoličku Crkvu naziva pedofilnom organizacijom. To je to što ja branim! A na čemu se zasnivaju te tvrdnje o prikrivanju tačno? Napiši?

Postavio sam ti brdo materijala; imas sudske presude, imas dokumentarne filmove, imas knjige zrtava pa se obrazuj; strasno je kolkiko negiras te cinjenice. Nisam ja problem za tu pedofiliju nkod vas sto vas podsecam na to; problem su oni koji su to radili.

[Zayron]

Na to tvoje pitanje Zeebedee o sankcijama imam za sad ovaj ovakav odgovor koji  sam pronašao u štampi.

Znači prema takvim sveštenicima i monasima je isti takav sličan postupak kao i kod vas a slične su i sankcije.

http://www.vjesnik.hr/Article.aspx?ID=244C7F45-B1C5-467C-8B6B-F8BC2546D435

[Zeebedee]

ja sam ti postirao dokaz da je cak i Papa prikrivao zlocin pa ti okaci macku o rep te vase dokumente:

Pazi sad ovo ovo su sami irski svestenici u USA pedofili i slivatelji:

http://www.bishop-accountability.org/irish_priests_in_us/

Samo jedan slucaj:

Simpson, Michael. Diocese of Yakima, Wash. Sued. He was a chronic alcoholic accused of sexually abusing at least nine girls in the 1960s, one claiming he raped her at age 10. Simpson returned to Ireland before lawsuits were filed against him; they were settled with small payments to victims. The mother of one victim allegedly told her pastor about the abuse and nothing was done about it for a decade before he left the country. Simpson died in Ireland. (An Irish Tragedy, by Joe Rigert, Crossland Press, May 2008; Diocese Hit with Lawsuit, Yakima Herald-Republic, June 29, 2006; Diocese Settles Four Sex-Abuse Lawsuits for $200,000, Yakima Herald-Republic, Jan. 9, 2008.)

[Zeebedee]

Pazi samo vo:

http://www.bishop-accountability.org/ma-boston/archives/PatternAndPractice/

[padreex]

Не бих да се правим паметан,али мислим да сте мало одлутали од теме.

Ова тема није отворена за осуду Православе или Католичке цркве,него је питање''Да католикц постане Православац''.

Ако верујемо да је Православна Црква којој припадамо,заиста Ortodoxsna,и да је литургијски живот кроз Православну Цркву прави пут ка спасењу и да непостоји други пут,или нека друга црква,организација,која би нас приближила Богу,онда је то сасвим довољан разлог-зашто бих било ко требао да буде Православне вероисповести.

Овом ниуком случају не значи да ће се неко спасити само због тога што је Православан.

Прочитао сам коментар на ову тему једног православног свештеника,који каже:''ако је искени хришћанин нема потребе за променом''.

Занима ме да ли то значи да ми можемо да се спасемо и кроз Католичку,протестанску,....цркву,ако смо ''Искрени хришћани''.?

[Zeebedee]

Evo ti jedne sotone episkopa o kojima pricam:

John Brendan McCormack (born August 12, 1935) is an American prelate of the Roman Catholic Church. He is the ninth and current Bishop of Manchester. In a PBS documentary, he was implicated in the coverup of priest Joseph Birmingham's sexual abuse, who alleged victimized almost a hundred children.

McCormack was later named the ninth Bishop of Manchester, New Hampshire, on July 21, 1998, succeeding the late Leo O'Neil. He was formally installed on September 22,1998.

In early 2002, McCormack publicly announced the names of 14 priests in the diocese who had been accused of sexually abusing children (cf Sexual abuse scandal in Manchester diocese).[1]

On August 10, 2010 Bishop McCormack, per law of the catholic bishop rule of retirement at the age of 75, sent in his resignation as the current leader of the Manchester Diocese. The Vatican is now in the process of looking for a successor.

early 2002, Bishop John McCormack publicly announced the names of 14 priests in the diocese who had been accused of sexually abusing children. In April of that same year, he was removed from his post as chairman of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops' Ad Hoc Committee on Sexual Abuse.[4] McCormack later admitted to reassigning pedophilic priests, but claimed poor file-keeping had kept him from knowing the full extent of the problem.

[Zayron]

ja sam ti postirao dokaz da je cak i Papa prikrivao zlocin pa ti okaci macku o rep te vase dokumente:

Pazi sad ovo ovo su sami irski svestenici u USA pedofili i slivatelji:

http://www.bishop-accountability.org/irish_priests_in_us/

Samo jedan slucaj:

Simpson, Michael. Diocese of Yakima, Wash. Sued. He was a chronic alcoholic accused of sexually abusing at least nine girls in the 1960s, one claiming he raped her at age 10. Simpson returned to Ireland before lawsuits were filed against him; they were settled with small payments to victims. The mother of one victim allegedly told her pastor about the abuse and nothing was done about it for a decade before he left the country. Simpson died in Ireland. (An Irish Tragedy, by Joe Rigert, Crossland Press, May 2008; Diocese Hit with Lawsuit, Yakima Herald-Republic, June 29, 2006; Diocese Settles Four Sex-Abuse Lawsuits for $200,000, Yakima Herald-Republic, Jan. 9, 2008.)

No molim te Zeebedee, šta ima s tim Vatikan, ti kao pop budeš recimo, nebudi primjenjeno,  silovat neku žensku a potom se s tim budeš pred ostalim popovima ili manastirskom bratijom ili negdje na nekakvom hodočašću ili javnoj svečanoj trpezi s episkopima i arhiepiskopima javno hvaliti s tim što si uradio? A kako bi to mogli ti tamo u kardinali u Vatikanu znat šta je on radio neke tamo 1960 godine prije 50 ili 60 godina kad je bio mlad , pa i oni su to tek saznali kad ga je ta oštećena osoba prijavila policiji i optužila, šta sad imaju oni s tim zajedničko. Trebaju si svaki postavit staklenu kuglu pred sebe ili napravit nekakav "obred prizivanja duhova" ko što je pisalo o onom majskom Saboru SPC i iz tog dpznati ko im od sveštenstva siluje ministrante ili djecu po crkvama? Ili su imali ponovo zavest inkviziciju s čim bi ja odmah bio saglasan, prijavio bih se odmah za inkvizitora! Otkad to Crkva ima sudsku vlast i policijske pravomoći u sekularnoj državi?

[Zeebedee]

Ne bih rekjao da se opdmicemo od teme; ja dajem primere zasto znam dosta konverta u pravoslavlje iz katolicanstva

Rev. Joseph E. Birmingham

Documents and Background

In January 2007, PBS Frontline broadcast a superb documentary about the Catholic abuse crisis called Hand of God — the story of survivor Paul Cultrera and his family's search for the truth about Rev. Joseph E. Birmingham. No other film brings such intimacy, subtlety, and humor to the crisis, and the thematic range is extraordinary. See the Frontline site and the Hand of God homepage. If you'd like to buy the DVD, please visit www.amatteroftruth.org and click on the link in the left margin.

The links below will allow you to look again at documents and speeches that are crucial to the film and to the revelations of the Birmingham cases, starting with Paul Cultrera's Statement to Bishop McCormack, with links to the documents that Cultrera quotes.

Paul Cultrera: A Statement to 'Bishop' McCormack

"I have flown across the country from Sacramento, California, the town where I now live to Salem, the town where I was born and grew up, to ask John McCormack some questions. I hope you will all understand why I do not address John as "father". My father is here in the audience, and John McCormack does not deserve to share that title with him. Nor can I refer to John as "bishop" because based on my experience with him, I don't believe that he merits that title either.

"When I went to the archdiocese of Boston in 1994 to report that 30 years before at St James parish in Salem Joseph Birmingham had used the confessional to lure me into his world of sexual molestation, I was in the dark as to Birmingham's history, and in fact still thought I may have been his only target. At that time, only two years had passed since I had talked for the first time to anyone about what had been my most tightly kept 30 year secret." To read more...

The "Smoking Gun" and Other Birmingham Documents

The woman in this photograph is Sister Grace Kenning, a key figure in St. James' parish as the community coped with the devastation brought upon it by Rev. Joseph E. Birmingham. The documents show that Kenning resisted Birmingham and comforted his victims, but as a parish school principal, she was also constrained by her limited role and the power of the priests and chancery officials.

Other documents released in 2002 showed at last that the archdiocese had known as early as 1964 that Birmingham was abusing children. This collection documents the tenacity of the survivors and their families, and the way in which Birmingham's transfers frustrated people's efforts to prevent the archdiocese from putting new parishes at risk. The documents also reveal the role that confession can play in the grooming of victims and the silencing afterward. Browse the documents...

Mom and Dad,

I want to thank you for listening to me tonight when I called about the article in the Globe. I understand how difficult this whole thing is for you, and how difficult it would be for you to see my name in an article that talks about my being abused by Birmingham. I understand because it was that same sense of shame and embarrassment that kept me quiet for 30 years, and that would have kept me quiet for the rest of my life if it wasn't for the fact that Hartley opened up the doors of the vault where I had been hiding my secret by asking me directly what had happened to me. At that moment I couldn't duck the truth any longer, as I could see clearly how much harm my silence had brought to our marriage. For all those years that I kept my secret, I lived with the fear that someone would find out what happened to me, and that they would think there was something the matter with me, that it had been my fault, and that I would be treated like an outcast. But instead what I found was that when people learned what had happened, they helped me to see that there was nothing to be ashamed of. To read more ...

Suit Names Archdiocese, N.H. Bishop

A former Salem man who alleges he was sexually molested hundreds of times by a parish priest in the 1960s said that Bishop John B. McCormack of Manchester, N.H., who was assigned to the same Salem parish at the time, saw the priest taking him to his rectory bedroom and did nothing to stop it.

McCormack, who was an auxiliary bishop in Boston under Cardinal Bernard F. Law, said through a spokesman the allegation by James Hogan is false. But in response to Globe inquiries, he acknowledged that he was warned more than 30 years ago that the Rev. Joseph E. Birmingham was molesting children at St. James parish in Salem. Read the story that broke the story...

Serial Abuse and Serial Transfers

The transfer of accused priests into communities where their past crimes are unknown is the central tragedy of the Catholic crisis, its defining characteristic. The career of Joseph E. Birmingham, as it has been pieced together by Paul Cultrera and other survivors, reveals the dynamic at its most virulent.

Birmingham was known to be a serial abuser in his first assignment, yet when courageous survivors and their parents came to the chancery to force a change, Birmingham was moved to another parish, this time with a large school. Our timeline of Birmingham's career provides links to survivor witness in each parish and helps to clarify the complicity of the archdiocese in his crimes. View the timeline ..

[Zeebedee]

No molim te Zeebedee, šta ima s tim Vatikan  ti kao pop budeš recimo silovat neku žensku a potom se s tim budeš pred ostalim popovima ili manastirskom bratijom ili negdje na nekakvom hodočašću ili javnom ručki s episkopima i arhiepiskopima javno hvaliti s tim što si uradio? A kako bi to mogli ti tamo u kardinali u Vatikanu znat šta je on radio neke tamo 1960 godine prije 50 ili 60 godina kad je bio mlad , pa i oni su to tek saznali kad ga je ta oštećena osoba prijavila policiji i optužila, šta sad imaju oni s tim zajedničko. Trebaju si svaki postavit staklenu kuglu pred sebe ili napravit obred prizivanja duhova ko što je pisalo o onom majskom Saboru SPC i iz tog dpznati ko im od sveštenstva siluje ministrante ili djecu po crkvama?

A BBC documentary has exposed that Pope Benedict XVI, aka Cardinal Ratzinger, played a leading role in a systematic cover-up of child sex abuse by Roman Catholic priests.

In 2001, while he was a cardinal, he issued a secret Vatican edict to Catholic bishops all over the world, instructing them to put the Church's interests ahead of child safety.

The document recommended that rather than reporting sexual abuse to the relevant legal authorities, bishops should encourage the victim, witnesses and perpetrator not to talk about it. And, to keep victims quiet, it threatened that if they repeat the allegations they would be excommunicated.

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[Zeebedee]

Evi i transkript cele emisije; sokantno jadno i tuzno; a sve ljudi koji se kunu u Hristosa:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/panorama/5402928.stm