10 Pitanja ateiste na koja svaki hrišćanin mora da odgovori?

[emilija]

e, ovako...

infantilnost kod Frojda(kako on zamislja odrasle ljude koji se savim neodraslo ponashaju em im daje alibi za tako shto)

i hajde.."infantilnost" u hriscanstvu, dva su razlichita pojma.

Hriscanstvo, taj put, jeste podvig. I teshko kuluchenje. Da se lichnost potpuno promeni i bash izbaci iz sebe naslage raznih alibija za ponashanje prema sebi i drugima;

Ochistiti sebe od strasti (ovaj pojam se pogreshno usko vezuje cesto za samo telesne strasti, prejedanje, alkoholisanje, cigarete, seks, lenjost, sve ono shto je POROBILO choveka i shto je totalni opozit SLOBODE koju treba imati pred Gospodom)

Sloboda znaci biti slobodan od strasti. Birati. Osloboditi se i duhovne prljavshtine, biti tolerantan ali odluchan, ne vredjati, imati ljubav, prashtanje, milosrdje, ne besniti, ne svetiti se, ne mrzeti, ne zavideti...

da li je lako?

Nikako. Zato je Gospod rekao da je njegov put "uzak" i da se teshko mozhe ici bez truda, muka, borbe sa samim sobom.

[emilija]

na ovo pisanije me podstaklo vrlo lepo zapazhanje izgubljene:

"Kao da je Bog "Big Daddy" koji ce sve da sredi ako budes bio dobar/dobra. Interesantan mu je taj stav o produzenju detinjstva kroz religiju."

Pomoci ce Bog svakom ko iole zheli da se promeni (kazhe se preumi, jer dolazi do totalne i kompletne izmene celog unutrashnjeg sklopa nasheg ponashanja i shvatanja odnosa sa sobom i drugima)

Chujem ovde katolici, koji crkvu vide samo na TV izjavljuju "naravno da cemo biti u raju" kao da treba da se sumnja u to, a da nishta nisu uchinili u cilju promene....kazhem katolici, masa je i pravoslavnih u toj zabludi.

[emilija]

rad, trud, trening i rezultati dolaze samom pomocu svishe.

Tada mozhemo da se uljuljkamo u fazu Frojdove "infantilnosti" jer chinimo sve shto je u nashoj moci da Gospoda nichim ne uvredimo a tada, gle chuda (tom chudu se ne chudi vernik koji to iskusi) sve postaje lakshe i lepshe i pomoc se skoro materijalizuje....

Kazhe Gospod "ishtite Carstvo nebesko i sve drugo ce vam se dodati"

znacji, tezhimo za promenama u sebi, molitvom neprestanom trazhimo odgovor od Boga da li smo na dobrom putu, a tada stizhu i ostala dobra a tada se i deshava da dobijemo tu smelost kada osetish da ti je Gospod zaista Otac, najbolji, najveci zashtitnik i da ce uvek biti tu.

zato je nemoguce to sve shto se deshava verniku objasniti nekom ko nije zakorachio na Njegov put....jer blagodat i sreca su posledica delanja a ne samo pustih zhelja (Bozhe daj mi sedmicu na loto-u, daj ovo daj ono- nema Boga)

tada stizhu i sve veca iskushenja i sve tezha borba ali i veca sreca (tada i saznajemo otprilike shta je to SRECA) ali tada vishe nismo sami u borbi i na putu. 4chsmu1

[emilija]

znachi Bog od nas trazhi odgovornost i ociscenje.

naravno da je nemoguce "ocistiti se" u tom smislu, zato su svi sveci pisali da ne znaju dokle su stigli, a najverovatnije nisu ni pocheli.

Ali Gospod ceni svaki nash najmanji napor, razlichiti smo, razlicito se i meri, kao u prichi o dva monaha

jedan postio 40 dana, drugi dva pa se komirao...ovaj prvi gordo od Gospoda trazio objashnjenje, nece li izjednachiti valjda obojicu, na sta je dobio odgovor da je ovaj drugi podneo daleko veci trud nego on kome NIJE BILO ni teshko postiti po prirodi.

Dakle, znaju se nashe mogucnosti ali volja i zelja za promenama su na nama i tu se Bog ne mesha. Svako je pozvan u carstvo izabranih, jer svi smo pozvani a izabrani su oni koji se odazovu...

To je SLOBODA. Kreni ili ostani kod Frojda, alibi imash za sve, ne morash prstom mrdnuti da se promenish ali savest kroz koju nam govori Bog te je opomenula i pozvala.

Pa kako hocesh..... 4chsmu1

[Grizzly Adams]

Емилија, дајеш ли приватне часове? 4chsmu1

Све си супер написала.

Hriscanstvo, taj put, jeste podvig. I teshko kuluchenje. Da se lichnost potpuno promeni i bash izbaci iz sebe naslage raznih alibija za ponashanje prema sebi i drugima;

[Grizzly Adams]

Kako covek evoluira, tako mu se menja religijska svest.

Prvi stupanj-strah od prirode

Drugi stupanj-red, zakon, zabrana

Treci stupanj-ljubav

Ово је такође велика истина.

[emilija]

I onda,

kroz to preumljenje lichnosti ti pocinjesh neprestano da zivish u molitvi (molitva, zahvalnost, razgovor s Bogom, razni su oblici molitve), osecash da si zashticen (ovo je rezultat lichnog opita hriscanina i niko ko je zakorachio tim putem ne bi se odrekao TOGA, tog lichnosnog odnosa s Gospodom i dozhivljaja Njega kao istinskog Oca - unapred odgovaram ovim na sumnje onih koji ne veruju)

e tada

tako preumljen i u sasvim novom odnosu s Gospodom mozhesh biti infantilan u smislu deteta, koje zna da je uchinilo sta je ucinilo iz LJUBAVI a ne prinude, pa makar i pogreshno, ono ide kod svog Oca i slobodno trazhi pomoc, utehu, ispunjenje zhelje, oproshtaj, zavisi vec sta...

u nashem zivotu pochinju tada da se ispunjavaju ZHELJE i deshava se da saznamo pre ili kasnije da su to zhelje cije ispunjenje nam je donelo KORIST.

I zashto je dobro sto nam se poneshto NIJE ispunilo.

Ovo, znachi sam zivot vernika je najvalidniji dokaz postojanja Gospoda i svako teoretsko nabedjivanje s onima koji nisu sve ovo predokusili nema nikakve svrhe.

Mene lichno u veru je uvelo interesovanje za slichno procitano, tudja iskustva a najvishe sami vernici svojim primerom i mirom koji nose u sebi.

[emilija]

Емилија, дајеш ли приватне часове?

Све си супер написала.

Hriscanstvo, taj put, jeste podvig. I teshko kuluchenje. Da se lichnost potpuno promeni i bash izbaci iz sebe naslage raznih alibija za ponashanje prema sebi i drugima;

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

hvala Zvonko  trening

obzirom u kom sam mraku zhivela dugo godina, sve ovo jeste predivno otkrice , mislim na veru a pishem samo o onome shto sam lichno iskusila, dalje ne, ovoliko mislim da smem, chak i da treba, ne samo ja nego svako jer nama samima svedochimo.

Daleko sam od svakog ocishcenja i mislim da je i dalje tezhak put pred svima nama, tezhak ali lep, josh i lepshi jer verom znamo zashto i chemu sve to  :cheesy:

PS lekcije dajem svojoj deci, koliko zhele da prime, zato moram strahovito da pazim na svaki korak.  4chsmu1

A pishem ovde zbog svih onih koji bi da krenu.

[Grizzly Adams]

Ovo, znachi sam zivot vernika je najvalidniji dokaz postojanja Gospoda i svako teoretsko nabedjivanje s onima koji nisu sve ovo predokusili nema nikakve svrhe.

Управо тако. Као што свако може да се увери да сапун пере руке, свако може да се увери да хришћански живот пере душу. Хришћанство је једина исправна и потпуна "теорија о човековој личности". Ко је то "експериментално проверио" њему више никакво набеђивање нема смисла.

obzirom u kom sam mraku zhivela dugo godina, sve ovo jeste predivno otkrice , mislim na veru a pishem samo o onome shto sam lichno iskusila, dalje ne, ovoliko mislim da smem, chak i da treba, ne samo ja nego svako jer nama samima svedochimo.

Исто искуство.  4chsmu1

[Andre Williams]

@emilija  и @ZvonkoM

trening 4chsmu1 :cheesy:

[Natasa.]

Da...lepo objasnjeno, kratko i jasno. Sustina bez preteranog pisanija i gubljenja  4chsmu1

[grigorije22]

Наведи овде текст из Талмуда који говори о Исусу.

А сви ти историчари које си набројао су живели после Исуса, не у његово време, и могли су да пишу само из "друге руке".

HE TALMUD & JESUS CHRIST

From the Jewish Encyclopedia, we learned that the Talmud slanders our Savior, Jesus Christ.

"... the Jewish Encyclopœdia admits that Jewish legends concerning Jesus are found in the Talmud and Midrash and in " the life of Jesus ( Toledot Yeshu) that originated in the Middle Ages. It is the tendency of all these sources to belittlethe person of Jesus by ascribing to Him illegitimate birth, magic, and a shameful death. " 1.

Rev. I. B. Pranaitis revealed in The Talmud Unmasked that Jesus is also maligned as a false teacher:

"… He[Jesus] is referred to in the Talmud as Otho Isch- "That man," i.e. the one who is known to all. In the tract Abhodah Zarah, 6a, we read: "He is called a Christian who follows the false teachings of that man, who taught them to celebrate the feast on the first day of the Sabbath, that is, to worship on the first day after Sabbath…Talui, -"The one who was hanged"…" 2.

Jewish sources avoid the Greek name "Jesus", meaning 'savior', and abbreviate Jeschua to "Jeshu' which means "may his name be blotted out!"

"…name in Hebrew would be Jeschua Hanotsri--Jesus the Nazarene. He is called Notsri from the city of Nazareth… In the Talmud Christians are also called Notsrim. (Amongst other things). 'Since the word Jeschua means 'Savior,' the name Jesus rarely occurs in the Jewish books. It is almost always abbreviated to Jeschu… as if it were composed of the initial letters of the three words Immach SCHemo Vezikro-- (meaning)- -'May his name be blotted out.'" 4.

Hebrew Roots proponents claim that these teachings are a thing of the past. However, a review of various Jewish sources in use today discloses identical the same or similar teachings. The Talmud and Cabala teachings of the Toledot Yeshu-- (or Tolodoth Ieschu or Sepher Toldoth Jehoshua) are representative of teachings regarding Christ which may be shocking to Christians. A brief overview of these teachings cites the Talmud, (treatise Sabbath, folio 104, treatise Sanhedrim, folio 107, and Sota, folio 47) which presents this falsified account of Jesus:

"...the Toledot Yeshu relates with the most indecent details that Miriam, a hairdresser of Bethlehem,4. affianced to a young man named Jochanan, was seduced by a libertine, Joseph Panther or Pandira, and gave birth to a son whom she named Johosuah or Jeschu. According to the Talmudic authors of the Sota and the Sanhedrim, Jeschu was taken during his boyhood to Egypt, where he was initiated into the secrets doctrines of the priests, and on his return to Palestine gave himself up to the practice of magic. 5. The Toledot Yeshu, however, goes on to say that on reaching manhood, Jeschu learnt the secret of his illegitimacy, on account of which he was driven out of the Synagogue and took refuge for a time in Galilee."

"Now, there was in the Temple a stone on which was engraved the Tetragrammaton [YHWH] or Schem Hamphorasch, that is to say, the Ineffable Name of God; this stone had been found by King David when the foundations of the Temple were being prepared and was deposited by him in the Holy of Holies. Jeschu, knowing this, came from Galilee and, penetrating into the Holy of Holies, read the Ineffable name, which he transcribed on to a piece of whom parchment and concealed in an incision under his skin. By this means he was able to work miracles and to persuade the people that he was the son of God foretold by Isaiah. With the aid of Judas, the Sages of the Synagogue, succeeding in capturing Jeschu, who was then lead before the Great and Little Sanhedrim, by whom he was condemned to be stoned to death and finally hanged." Such is the story of Christ according to the Jewish Kabbalists ..." 5.

This false witness to the person of Jesus in the Talmud is also confirmed by Rev. I. B. Pranaitis in his online report, The Talmud Unmasked: The Secret Rabbinical Teachings Concerning Christians, and other sources" 6.

Another Jesus

In his article, "Some Disturbing Aspects of the So-called 'Hebrew Roots' Movement and Their Implications" Andrew Gould presents the Hebrew Roots' doubtful view concerning the validity of the Gospel account of Jesus.

"…It has been widely accepted in "Hebrew Roots" circles that Jesus spoke Hebrew and that the Gospels were originally written in Hebrew. Most "Hebrew Roots" ministries have been influenced in this notion by the output of a body called the Jerusalem School Of Synoptic Research, [JSSR] and most especially due to the widespread influence of the book "Understanding The Difficult Words Of Jesus" published by David Bivin (Director of the JSSR) and his partner Roy Blizzard. in 1984 and reprinted in 1994 and 1995…" 7.

According to the JSSR, there is a more authentic Life of Jesus than the gospel accounts:

"… There was an original Hebrew 'Life of Jesus', from parts of which our canonical Greek Gospel Texts are mere compilations and translations. The individual words of the Greek texts that we have are standard Greek equivalents used to translate Hebrew documents into Greek, therefore we can retranslate back into Hebrew to discover what Jesus really said. Failure to appreciate the Hebraic origins of the Gospels has led to mistranslation, misinterpretation, spiritually damaging error and doctrinal confusion." 8.

It has been established that the original manuscripts for the New Testament were composed in Greek. The Toledot Yeshu is a Hebrew version of the life of Jesus Christ for Jews who rejected him as God come in the flesh. It is also purveyed in Jewish sources that Jesus was not viewed as divine by his disciples, but was viewed as the human Messiah. This subject will be pursued in the next section on Jewish Thought.

Sir James Frazer, author of The Golden Bough, states that to cast doubt on the historical reality of Jesus, would be hardly less absurd than it would be to doubt Mohammed, and so on. Other historians reiterate that the existence of Christ is an historic fact. However, Rene' Guenon, "who writes with inside knowledge" of Theosophy in Le Theosophisme (1921), cites a reference to the occultic Le Lotus of 1887 which states that Jesus Christ of the New Testament never existed, but the Jesus of the Talmud did exist:

"... Madam Blavatsky's writings, on the person of Christ, ... 'For me, Jesus Christ, that is to say the Man-God of the Christians, copy of the Avatars of all countries, of the Hindu Chrishna as of the Egyptian Horus, was never a historical personage.' Hence the story of His life was merely an allegory founded on the existence of the 'a personage named Jehoshua born at Lud.' But elsewhere she asserted that Jesus may have lived during the Christian era or a century earlier 'as the Sepher Toldoth Jehoshua indicates.'

"And Madame Blavatsky went on to say of the savants who deny the historical value of this legend, that they- 'either lie or talk nonsense. It is our Masters who affirm it. If the history of Jehoshua or Jesus Ben Pandera is false, then the whole of the Talmud, the whole of the Jewish canon law, is false. It was the disciple of Jehoshua ben Parachai, the fifth President of the Sanhedrin since Ezra, who re-wrote the Bible .... This story is much truer than that of the New Testament, of which history does not say a word." 9.

Could it be that Jehoshua Ben Pandera of the Talmud, who was initiated into the 'secret doctrine' and gave himself over to the practice of magic, is the Jehoshua or Yeshua promoted by the Hebrew Roots teachers?  The following is a portion of an e-mail exchange dated 1/28/99 between the writer and Uri Marcus of Nehemiah Trustee Covenant Fund:

Vicky Dillen: The name Jesus Christ is known world wide and synonymous with Christianity.  That is a historical fact.

Uri Marcus: Today, yes. 200+ years ago it was synonymous with nothing. How naive you are of history...

Vicky Dillen: The Jewish people reject that Jesus Christ was divine and believe that He was not God come in the flesh. I believe on the other hand that He is all of that. Where do you stand Uri? In the Jewish belief or in what Christ himself said and what is taught in the New Testament?

Uri Marcus: I believe in the Jewish belief. But your definition is somewhat lacking. Doesn't look like you would understand it, since its already been explained, and it just goes right over your head.

From the La Science des Esprits, by the 19th century occultist, Eliphas Levi, we learned that the Cabalistic Toledot Yeshu and similar Talmudic teachings were purposely hidden from Christians.

"…the Toledot Yeshu, or the Sepher Toldos Jeschu, described here as originating in the Middle Ages…belongs in a much earlier period. Eliphas Levi asserts that 'the Sepher Toldos, to which the Jews attribute a great antiquity and which they hid from the Christians with such precautions that this book was for a long while unfindable, is quoted for the first time by Raymond Martin of the Order of the Preaching Brothers… This book was evidently written by a Rabbi initiated into the mysteries of the Cabala 1.'" 10.

In 1242, the Talmud was put on trial and ordered to be burned, by King Louis IX, because of its vicious slanders against Jesus Christ and Christians. It was stated that The Talmud encouraged the robbery and deception of Christians as a virtue; that it was permitted to break a promise, and so on.

The stories contained in Toledot Yeshu and similar teachings were well-known in Jewish circles, but did not come to the knowledge of Gentiles or Christians until Raymond Martin translated the Toledot Yeshu into Latin. Later, Martin Luther summarized it in German under the name Schem Hamphorasch; Luther's expose is available in French in Gustave Brunet's, Evangiles Apocryphes. 11.

According to Geschichte der Juden, by Jewish historian Heinrich Graetz, the image presented of Jesus Christ is simply as an initiate of Essenism; in other words, Jesus was just performing the miracles that any adept in the mystery religions could do.

"…Thus the Jewish historian Graetz declares that Jesus simply appropriated to himself the essential features of Essenism, and that primitive Christianity was "nothing but an offshoot of Essenism"2" 12a.

Nesta Webster wrote the Talmud characterizes Jesus Christ as a magician for an esoteric sect, such as the Essenes:

". . . So after representing Christ as a magician in the Toledot Yeshu and the Talmud, Jewish tradition seeks to explain His miraculous works as those of a mere healer--an :group111: that we shall find descending right through the secret societies to this day… if the miracles of Christ were simply due to a knowledge of natural laws and His doctrines were the outcome of a sect, the whole theory of His divine power and mission falls to the ground…" 12.

When the Jewish teachings regarding Jesus Christ were discovered in the early 1600's, a cover-up ensued. In 1631, a Jewish synod in Poland ordered the offending passages to be expunged, and that these teaching were to be passed on orally to young Jews by Rabbis. This is documented by P.L.B Drach:

"Drach, op.cit. I.168, 169. The text of this encyclical is given in Hebrew and also in translation, thus: " This is why we enjoin you, under the pain of excommunication major, to print nothing in future editions, whether of Mischna or of the Gemara, which relates whether for good or evil to the acts of Jesus the Nazarene, and to substitute instead a circle like this O, which will warn the Rabbis and schoolmasters to teach the young these passages only viva voce. By means of this precaution the savants amongst the Nazarenes will have no further pretext to attack us on this subject. Cf, Abbe'Chiarini, Le Talmud de Babylone, p. 45 (1831)." 13.

The offending passages are said to have been reinserted since then, although the such passages may not necessarily be in English translations or newer editions. 14.

These, then, are the teachings and thought within the Talmud regarding our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Some might say that the views presented from the past regarding Jesus Christ do not apply today, or have no effect on our studying Jewish tradition, teachings or thought within the Hebrew Roots movement. Or that the above slander of Our Lord is no longer taught. If so, then what current Jewish thought regarding the Messiah, salvation, sin, the Son of God, and the divinity of Christ?  Do Jews define these terms as Christians do?

In his volume, The Talmud, Joseph Barclay confirms that the writings of Drach, a Talmudist turned Catholic whose writings were never refuted by Jews, called Jesus was a sorcerer:

" … Abominable calumnies on Christ and Christianity occur not only in the Cabala but in the earlier editions of the Talmud. In these, says Barclay - 'Our Lord and savior is 'that one', 'such an one', 'a fool', 'the leper', 'the deceiver of Israel', etc. Efforts are made to prove that He is the son of Joseph Pandira before His marriage with Mary. His miracles are attributed to sorcery the secret of which He brought in a slit in His flesh out of Egypt. He is said had been first stoned and then hanged on the eve of the Passover. His disciples are called heretics and opprobious names. They are accused of immoral practices, and the New Testament is called a sinful book. The references to these subjects manifest the most bitter aversion and hatred." 15. 

Considering the diversity of thought inside Judaism as found in four different groupings - Orthodoxy, Conservative, Reform, and Reconstructionist Judaism - we cannot claim that the respective ideas of each group agree on all points. However, there are some underlying beliefs that appear to remain constant and accepted by most Jews regarding Christ, the Messiah, salvation, sin, and so on.

The Jewish Messiah

Dr. Lawrence J. Epstein, considered a Conservative Jew, explains The Differences between Judaism and Christianity in his book by that name. In a chapter, "The Jewish View of Jesus," Dr. Epstein gives Jesus credit for being a good teacher, but not God:

"To Christians, the central tenet of their religion is the belief that Jesus is the Son of God, part of the trinity, the savior of souls who is the messiah. He is God's revelation through flesh. Jesus was, in Christian terms, God incarnate, God in the flesh who came to Earth to absorb the sins of humans and therefore free from sin those who accepted his divinity. To Jews, whatever wonderful teacher and storyteller Jesus may have been, he was just a human, not the son of God (except in the metaphorical sense in which all humans are children of God). In the Jewish view, Jesus cannot save souls; only God can. Jesus did not, in the Jewish view, rise from the dead." 16.

The "Jews for Judaism" web site describes Jesus as a false prophet predicted in the Old Testament.

"…Jesus the Nazarene, who imagined that he would be messiah and was killed, is alluded to in the book of Daniel, as it is said, `And the sons of the transgressors among thy people will rise, in order to establish a vision, and will stumble' (Dan. 11:14). Can there be a greater stumbling then this? All the prophets said that messiah will be a redeemer and a savior to the Israelites, will bring together their outcasts, and will strengthen their obedience to the Divine precepts, but he (Jesus) caused destruction by the sword to Israel, the dispersion of those left, and their humiliation. He changed the law, and misled many people to worship a being beside G-D…." 17.

Rabbi Hyam Maccoby, in Revolution in Judaea, written in 1973 and still proclaimed accurate today, defines the Jewish view of Messiah as an anointed one, and angel or king, but not divine:

"The title "Messiah' (Greek-Christos) was not a divine title among the Jews. It simply means ' anointed'. It was given to two Jewish officials, King and the High Priest… every Jewish king of the house of David was known as Messiah, or Christ…" 18.

"The 'Son of Man', was not a Messiah. He was an angel identified with the Guardian Angel of Israel, with Metatron, with the angel who guided the Children of Israel in the wilderness…" 19.

"…There is hardly any reference in the Prophetic writings of the Old Testament to the Messiah as a person. There is no splendid shining figure judging mankind, sitting at the right-hand of God and coming very near to eclipsing God Himself by His glory." 20.

"Messiah…in Jewish eyes, belonged to royalty, not divinity. Even the title 'Son of God" was to Jews (but not to the Gnostics) a human title applied at various times in the Hebrew Scriptures to Kings such as King David…"Son of Man" also was not a divine title…far better known as a mode of address to a prophet…to mean simply 'human being'." 21.

The Jews for Judaism web site explains the historical "Jewish Belief in Messiah," from the Mishna (Torah) by Maimonides, as one who would restore the Kingdom of David:

"... In his monumental work Mishneh Torah, Maimonides (1135-1204) spelled out the fundamental Jewish concept of the messiah as it was handed down to us, generation after generation, from the time of the prophets…"

"…from the Mishneh Torah, Hilchot Melachim XI - XII. The King Messiah will in some future time come, restore the kingdom of David to its former power, build the Temple, bring together the scattered of Israel, and all the ancient laws will again be in force. Sacrifices will be offered, and years of release and Jubilees will be kept as prescribed in the Torah. Whoever does not believe in him, or does not hope for his coming, shows a lack of faith not only in the prophets, but also in the Torah…" 22.

Some Jews have believed there would be many Messiahs. At the time of Christ, Hyam Maccoby states:

"… Any leader who succeeded in driving out the Romans and setting up an independent Jewish state would have little difficulty in being recognized as the Messiah. His very success would prove his claim. Thus Bar Kochba was recognized as the Messiah by Rabbi Akiva even though there was no evidence of his descent from David." 23.

Demonstrating the spiritual blindness of the Jews, The Jewish Guardian of 1924 interpreted the great messianic prophecy, Isaiah 53, as the sufferings of Israel, rather than Jesus Christ:

"… an article in the Jewish Press,… according to the teaching of the 'Liberal Jewish Synagogue,' the beautiful passages in the fifty-third chapter of Isaiah concerning 'the Man of Sorrows acquainted with grief,' usually supposed by Christians to relate to the promised Messiah, are interpreted to modern Jewish youth as relating to Israel and signifying that Israel's 'sufferings were caused by the sins of other nations,' who thus 'escaped the suffering they deserved.' Consequently, 'Israel was offered for the sake of the whole world.'2." 24.

[Teleskop]

Sta mislite o ovome:

http://forum.b92.net/topic/66471-kutak-za-ateiste/page__st__255

[Natasa.]

Ok, ako je pisao srednjoskolac, nije lose. Za odrasle je to samo jos jedna rupa na saksiji.  stadaradim

[sqny]

Ovo, znachi sam zivot vernika je najvalidniji dokaz postojanja Gospoda i svako teoretsko nabedjivanje s onima koji nisu sve ovo predokusili nema nikakve svrhe.

To nije nikakav dokaz za Boga, vec opis kako religija utice na covekovu psihu.

Da si rekla najbolji razlog za veru...