Како би свет изгледао да нема хришћана?

[marko_13]

Римска наука се сводила на употребљивост. Развијала се само у сврху остварења власти или могућности да се успе у рату. Ниси ми навео десет научника, већ си само тражио узвратно, што је смешан аргумент и показује да их немаш.

Хришћанство је сачувало античку науку и унапредило је, а и дало је током средњег века социјалне и управне темеље савременој Европи. Као што рекох, шачица земљаних не може да пољуља веру хришћана.

Римљани нису били никакви философи, већ су били компилатори. И како сад да ти не кажем да не лупаш глупости, али ћу се овај пут суздржати, јер очигледно ниси ти крив, већ непостојање историјске реалности и познавање ситуације.

[marko_13]

Иако ти немаш десет римских научника верујућих научника:    

    Nicholas Copernicus (1473-1543)

   Copernicus was the Polish astronomer who put forward the first mathematically based system of planets going around the sun. He attended various European universities, and became a Canon in the Catholic church in 1497. His new system was actually first presented in the Vatican gardens in 1533 before Pope Clement VII who approved, and urged Copernicus to publish it around this time. Copernicus was never under any threat of religious persecution - and was urged to publish both by Catholic Bishop Guise, Cardinal Schonberg, and the Protestant Professor George Rheticus. Copernicus referred sometimes to God in his works, and did not see his system as in conflict with the Bible.

   Sir Francis Bacon (1561-1627)

   Bacon was a philosopher who is known for establishing the scientific method of inquiry based on experimentation and inductive reasoning. In De Interpretatione Naturae Prooemium, Bacon established his goals as being the discovery of truth, service to his country, and service to the church. Although his work was based upon experimentation and reasoning, he rejected atheism as being the result of insufficient depth of philosophy, stating, "It is true, that a little philosophy inclineth man’s mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion; for while the mind of man looketh upon second causes scattered, it may sometimes rest in them, and go no further; but when it beholdeth the chain of them confederate, and linked together, it must needs fly to Providence and Deity." (Of Atheism)

   Johannes Kepler (1571-1630)

   Kepler was a brilliant mathematician and astronomer. He did early work on light, and established the laws of planetary motion about the sun. He also came close to reaching the Newtonian concept of universal gravity - well before Newton was born! His introduction of the facenew22222222 of force in astronomy changed it radically in a modern direction. Kepler was an extremely sincere and pious Lutheran, whose works on astronomy contain writings about how space and the heavenly bodies represent the Trinity. Kepler suffered no persecution for his open avowal of the sun-centered system, and, indeed, was allowed as a Protestant to stay in Catholic Graz as a Professor (1595-1600) when other Protestants had been expelled!

   Rene Descartes (1596-1650)

   Descartes was a French mathematician, scientist and philosopher who has been called the father of modern philosophy. His school studies made him dissatisfied with previous philosophy: He had a deep religious faith as a Roman Catholic, which he retained to his dying day, along with a resolute, passionate desire to discover the truth. At the age of 24 he had a dream, and felt the vocational call to seek to bring knowledge together in one system of thought. His system began by asking what could be known if all else were doubted - suggesting the famous "I think therefore I am". Actually, it is often forgotten that the next step for Descartes was to establish the near certainty of the existence of God - for only if God both exists and would not want us to be deceived by our experiences - can we trust our senses and logical thought processes. God is, therefore, central to his whole philosophy. What he really wanted to see was that his philosophy be adopted as standard Roman Catholic teaching. Rene Descartes and Francis Bacon (1561-1626) are generally regarded as the key figures in the development of scientific methodology. Both had systems in which God was important, and both seem more devout than the average for their era.

   Isaac Newton (1642-1727)

   In optics, mechanics, and mathematics, Newton was a figure of undisputed genius and innovation. In all his science (including chemistry) he saw mathematics and numbers as central. What is less well known is that he was devoutly religious and saw numbers as involved in understanding God's plan for history from the Bible. He did a considerable work on biblical numerology, and, though aspects of his beliefs were not orthodox, he thought theology was very important. In his system of physics, God is essential to the nature and absoluteness of space. In Principia he stated, "The most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being."

   Robert Boyle (1791-1867)

   One of the founders and key early members of the Royal Society, Boyle gave his name to "Boyle's Law" for gases, and also wrote an important work on chemistry. Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "By his will he endowed a series of Boyle lectures, or sermons, which still continue, 'for proving the Christian religion against notorious infidels...' As a devout Protestant, Boyle took a special interest in promoting the Christian religion abroad, giving money to translate and publish the New Testament into Irish and Turkish. In 1690 he developed his theological views in The Christian Virtuoso, which he wrote to show that the study of nature was a central religious duty." Boyle wrote against atheists in his day (the notion that atheism is a modern invention is a myth), and was clearly much more devoutly Christian than the average in his era.

   Michael Faraday (1791-1867)

   Michael Faraday was the son of a blacksmith who became one of the greatest scientists of the 19th century. His work on electricity and magnetism not only revolutionized physics, but led to much of our lifestyles today, which depends on them (including computers and telephone lines and, so, web sites). Faraday was a devoutly Christian member of the Sandemanians, which significantly influenced him and strongly affected the way in which he approached and interpreted nature. Originating from Presbyterians, the Sandemanians rejected the 0205_whistling of state churches, and tried to go back to a New Testament type of Christianity.

   Gregor Mendel (1822-1884)

   Mendel was the first to lay the mathematical foundations of genetics, in what came to be called "Mendelianism". He began his research in 1856 (three years before Darwin published his Origin of Species) in the garden of the Monastery in which he was a monk. Mendel was elected Abbot of his Monastery in 1868. His work remained comparatively unknown until the turn of the century, when a new generation of botanists began finding similar results and "rediscovered" him (though their ideas were not identical to his). An interesting point is that the 1860's was notable for formation of the X-Club, which was dedicated to lessening religious influences and propagating an image of "conflict" between science and religion. One sympathizer was Darwin's cousin Francis Galton, whose scientific interest was in genetics (a proponent of eugenics - selective breeding among humans to "improve" the stock). He was writing how the "priestly mind" was not conducive to science while, at around the same time, an Austrian monk was making the breakthrough in genetics. The rediscovery of the work of Mendel came too late to affect Galton's contribution.

   William Thomson Kelvin (1824-1907)

   Kelvin was foremost among the small group of British scientists who helped to lay the foundations of modern physics. His work covered many areas of physics, and he was said to have more letters after his name than anyone else in the Commonwealth, since he received numerous honorary degrees from European Universities, which recognized the value of his work. He was a very committed Christian, who was certainly more religious than the average for his era. Interestingly, his fellow physicists George Gabriel Stokes (1819-1903) and James Clerk Maxwell (1831-1879) were also men of deep Christian commitment, in an era when many were nominal, apathetic, or anti-Christian. The Encyclopedia Britannica says "Maxwell is regarded by most modern physicists as the scientist of the 19th century who had the greatest influence on 20th century physics; he is ranked with Sir Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein for the fundamental nature of his contributions." Lord Kelvin was an Old Earth creationist, who estimated the Earth's age to be somewhere between 20 million and 100 million years, with an upper limit at 500 million years based on cooling rates (a low estimate due to his lack of knowledge about radiogenic heating).

   Max Planck (1858-1947)

   Planck made many contributions to physics, but is best known for quantum theory, which revolutionized our understanding of the atomic and sub-atomic worlds. In his 1937 lecture "Religion and Naturwissenschaft," Planck expressed the view that God is everywhere present, and held that "the holiness of the unintelligible Godhead is conveyed by the holiness of symbols." Atheists, he thought, attach too much importance to what are merely symbols. Planck was a churchwarden from 1920 until his death, and believed in an almighty, all-knowing, beneficent God (though not necessarily a personal one). Both science and religion wage a "tireless battle against skepticism and dogmatism, against unbelief and superstition" with the goal "toward God!"

   

[suza]

kad su rimljani  bili svaki seljak je ucio citat i pisati

Delimicna istina.

Rimljani su prve ugovore imali stipulacijom ( stipula - cvrsta rec ) dakle verbalni uygovori, urpavo jer su imali problema sa nepismenoscu prvi put kada su prosirili teritorije.

Medjutim posle se polako prelazilo na pisane ugovore pa smo imali veliki razvoj pismenosti i uticaja rimskog jezika u svim ostalim jezicima.

Ali reci da je za vreme rima tehnoloski napredak zaosta je prosto neistina. To se desilo uglavnom i najvise za vreme srednjeg veka kada su dosli elitizam, hriscanstvo, feudalizam.

za to je delimicno zasluzno hriscanstvo koje nije dozvoljavalo da se narusavaju dogme ( hriscanstvo je deo svojih naucne stavove prihvatilo od aristotelovog ucenja koje nije imalo u bibliji ) i delom zbog toga sto su se feudalci i crkva udruzili lepo pa su svi radili masivno nije imao covek vremena da se posveti bilo kakvom razmisljanju ili filozofiranju, te nije mogao da stvori nikakav naucni napredak.

ali nije imao vremena ili mu nije dozvoljeno bilo da bi znao pisati i citati ,to mozda isto moze radi i cuti sto ti se kaze -tako nekako bilo  facenew22222222 0205_whistling :cheesy:

[Passenger]

Па види овако. Свега би било, само хришћана не би било...логика facenew22222222

Ne mogu da nadjem neki lep potpis, ali u svakom slucaju potpis!

[Млађони]

Ma sta mi rece nisam ti dao nijednog rimljanina koji je doprineo tehnoloskom napretku?

Abacus, Roman Portable.

Alum The production of alum (KAl(SO4)2.12H2O) from alunite (KAl3(SO4)2.(OH)6) is archaeologically attested on the island Lesbos[10]. This site was abandoned in the 7th century but dates back at least to the 2nd century AD.

Amphitheatre See e.g. Colosseum.

Aqueduct, true arch Pont du Gard, Segovia etc.

Arch, monumental

Bath, monumental public (Thermae) See e.g. Baths of Diocletian

Book (Codex) First mentioned by Martial in the 1st C. AD. Held many advantages over the scroll.

Brass The Romans had enough understanding of zinc to produce a brass denomination coinage; see sestertius.

Bridge, true arch See e.g. Roman bridge in Chaves or the Severan Bridge.

Bridge, segmental arch More than a dozen Roman bridges are known to feature segmental (=flat) arches. A prominent example was Trajan's bridge over the Danube, a lesser known the extant Limyra Bridge in Lycia

Bridge, pointed arch Possibly the earliest known bridge featuring a pointed arch is the 5-6th century AD Karamagara Bridge[11]

Camel harness The harnessing of camels to ploughs is attested in North Africa by the 3rd century AD[12]

Cameos Probably a Hellenistic innovation e.g. Cup of the Ptolemies but taken up by the Emperors e.g. Gemma Augustea, Gemma Claudia etc.

Cast Iron Recently archaeologically detected in the Val Gabbia in northern Lombardy from the 5th and 6th centuries AD.[13] This technically interesting innovation appears to have had little economic impact. But archaeologists may have failed to recognize the distinctive slag, so the date and location of this innovation may be revised.

Cement

Concrete

Pozzolana variety

Crank handle A Roman iron crank handle was excavated in Augusta Raurica, Switzerland. The 82.5 cm long piece with a 15 cm long handle is of yet unknown purpose and dates to no later than ca. 250 AD.[9]

Crank and connecting rod Found in several water-powered saw mills dating from the late 3rd (Hierapolis sawmill) to 6th century AD (at Ephesus respectively Gerasa).[2]

Crane, treadwheel

Dam, Arch[14] Currently best attested for the dam at Glanum, France dated ca. 20 BC.[15] The structure has entirely disappeared. Its existence attested from the cuts into the rock on either side to key in the dam wall, which was 14.7 metres high, 3.9m thick at base narrowing to 2.96m at the top. Earliest description of arch action in such types of dam by Procopius around 560 AD, the Dara Dam[16]

Dam, Arch-gravity Examples include curved dams at Orükaya[17], Çavdarhisar, both Turkey (and 2nd c.)[17]Kasserine Dam in Tunisia[18], and Puy Foradado Dam in Spain (2nd–3rd c.)[19]

Dam, Bridge The Band-i-Kaisar, constructed by Roman prisoners of war in Shustar, Persia, in the 3rd c. AD,[20] featured a weir combined with an arch bridge, a multifunctional hydraulic structure which subsequently spread throughout Iran.[21]

Dam, Buttress Attested in a number of Roman dams in Spain[19], like the 600 m long Consuegra Dam

Dam, Multiple Arch Buttress Esparragalejo Dam, Spain (1st c. AD) earliest known[22]

Dome, monumental See e.g. Pantheon.

Foot-powered loom Before 298 AD, with a hint the invention arose at Tarsus[23]

Flos Salis A product of salt evaporation ponds Dunaliella salina[24] used in the perfume industry (Pliny Nat. Hist. 31,90)

Force pump used in fire engine See image of pointable nozzle

Glass blowing This led to a number of innovations in the use of glass. Window glass is attested at Pompeii in AD 79. In the 2nd century AD [25] hanging glass oil lamps were introduced. These used floating wicks and by reducing self shading gave more lumens in a downwards direction. Cage cups (see photograph) are hypothesised as oil lamps.

Dichroic glass as in the Lycurgus Cup. [6] Note, this material attests otherwise unknown chemistry (or other way?) to generate nano-scale gold-silver particles.

Glass mirrors (Pliny the Elder Naturalis Historia 33,130)

Greenhouse cold frames (Pliny the Elder Naturalis Historia 19.64; Columella on Ag. 11.3.52)

Hydraulis A water organ. Later also the pneumatic organ.

Hushing Described by Pliny the Elder and confirmed at Dolaucothi and Las Médulas

Hydraulic mining Described by Pliny the Elder and confirmed at Dolaucothi and Las Médulas

Hydrometer Mentioned in a letter of Synesius

Hypocaust A floor and also wall heating system. Described by Vitruvius

Knife, multifunctional [7]

Lighthouses The best surviving examples are those at Dover castle and the Tower of Hercules at La Coruna

Leather, Tanned The preservation of skins with vegetable tannins was a pre-Roman invention but not of the antiquity once supposed. (Tawing was far more ancient.) The Romans were responsible for spreading this technology into areas where it was previously unknown such as Britain and Qasr Ibrim on the Nile. In both places this technology was lost when the Romans withdrew.[26]

Mills M.J.T.Lewis presents good evidence that water powered vertical pounding machines came in by the middle of the 1st c. AD for fulling, grain hulling (Pliny Nat. Hist. 18,97) and ore crushing (archaeological evidence at Dolaucothi Gold Mines and Spain).

Grainmill, rotary. According to Moritz (p57) rotary grainmills were not known to the ancient Greeks but date from before 160 BC. Unlike reciprocating mills, rotary mills could be easily adapted to animal or water power. Lewis (1997) argues that the rotary grainmill dates to the 5th century BC in the western Mediterranean. Animal and water powered rotary mills came in the 3rd century BC.

Sawmill, water powered. Recorded by 370 AD. Attested in Ausonius's poem Mosella. Translated [8]"the Ruwer sends mill-stones swiftly round to grind the corn, And drives shrill saw-blades through smooth marble blocks". Recent archaeological evidence from Phrygia, Anatolia, now pushes back the date to the 3rd century AD and confirms the use of a crank in the sawmill.[27]

Shipmill, (Though small, the conventional term is "shipmill" not boat mill, probably because there was always a deck, and usually an enclosed superstructure, to keep the flour away from the damp.) where water wheels were attached to boats, was first recorded at Rome in 547 AD in Procopius of Caesarea's Gothic Wars (1.19.8-29) when Belisaurius was besieged there.

Steam engine, essentials of By the late 3rd century AD, all essential elements for constructing a steam engine were known by Roman engineers: steam power (in Hero's aeolipile), the crank and connecting rod mechanism (in the Hierapolis sawmill), the cylinder and piston (in metal force pumps), non-return valves (in water pumps) and gearing (in water mills and clocks)[4]

Watermill. Improvements upon earlier models. For the largest mill complex known see Barbegal

Mercury Gilding as in the Horses of San Marco

Newspaper, rudimentary See Acta Diurna.

Odometer

Paddle wheel boats In de Rebus Bellicis (possibly only a paper invention).

Pewter Mentioned by Pliny the Elder (Naturalis Historia34,160-1). Surviving examples are mainly Romano-British of the 3rd and 4th centuries e.g.[9] and[10]. Roman pewter had a wide range of proportions of tin but proportions of 50%, 75% and 95% predominate (Beagrie 1989).

Pleasure lake An artificial reservoir, highly unusual in that it was meant for recreational rather than utilitarian purposes was created at Subiaco, Italy, for emperor Nero (54–68 AD). The dam remained the highest in the Roman Empire (50 m),[28] and in the world until its destruction in 1305.[29]

Plough

iron-bladed (A much older innovation (e.g. Bible; I Samuel 13,20-1) that became much more common in the Roman period)

wheeled (Pliny the Elder Naturalis Historia 18.171-3) (More important for the Middle Ages, than this era.)

Pottery, glossed i.e. Samian ware

Reaper An early harvesting machine: vallus (Pliny the Elder Naturalis Historia 18,296, Palladius 7.2.2-4 [11])

Sails, fore-and-aft rig Introduction of fore-and-aft rigs 1) the Lateen sail 2) the Spritsail, this last already attested in 2nd century BC in the northern Aegean Sea [30] Note: there is no evidence of any combination of fore and aft rigs with square sails on the same Roman ship.

Sails, Lateen Representations show lateen sails in the Mediterranean as early as the 2nd century AD. Both the quadrilateral and the triangular type were employed.[31][32][33][34][35][36][37][38][39][40]

Roller Bearings Archaeologically attested in the Lake Nemi ships[41]

Rudder, stern-mounted See image for something very close to being a sternpost rudder

Sausage, fermented dry (probably) See salami.

Screw press An innovation of about the mid 1st century AD[42]

Sewers See for example Cloaca Maxima

Soap, hard (sodium) First mentioned by Galen (earlier, potassium, soap being Celtic).

Spiral staircase Though first attested as early as the 5th century BC in Greek Selinunte, spiral staircases only become more widespread after their adoption in Trajan's column and the Column of Marcus Aurelius.

Stenography, a system of See Tironian notes.

Street map, early See Forma Urbis Romae (Severan Marble Plan), a carved marble ground plan of every architectural feature in ancient Rome.[43]

Sundial, portable See Theodosius of Bithynia

Surgical instruments, various

Tooth implants, iron See [12]

Towpath e.g. beside the Danube, see the "road" in Trajan's bridge

Tunnels Excavated from both ends simultaneously. The longest known is the 5.6-kilometre (3.5 mi) drain of the Fucine lake

Vehicles, one wheeled Solely attested by a Latin word in 4th C. AD Scriptores Historiae Augustae Heliogabalus 29. As this is fiction, the evidence dates to its time of writing.

Wood veneer Pliny Nat. Hist. 16.231-2

( pronalasci od strane rimljana )

Samo nepoznavaoc istorije starog rima moze da tvrdi neistinu da je nesto zaostalo za vreme rima.

Inace sto se tice ovih naucnika, ja nigde nisam rekao da nema hriscana dobrih naucnika, ne znam zasto mi to nabrajas? Ja sam rekao da je hriscanstvo na vlasti usporilo nauku - doslo 400-te godine i sledeci pristojni naucni pronalasci se javljaju tek u 17-tom veku.

I sta tu tebi nije jasno? Jel paganski rim usporio 15 vekova naucnih nepronalaska?

Dalje, idalje tvrdnja stoji jer svi naucnici koji su bili hriscani su imali SUKOB sa HRISCANSKI AUTORITETIMA.

I na kraju dva naucnika ne pripadaju tvojoj listi Issak Newton nije bio HRISCANIN vec OCULTISTA, ALEHMICAR I GNOSTIK.

Za Dekarta se ( iako se u javnosti smatrao hriscaninom ) misli da je u tajnosti bio ateista/agnostik, za sta ima kvalitetnih dokaza ali je to KRIO da ne bi brao kozu na siljak.

NE ZELIS DA KRENEM DA TI PRICAM O RIMSKOM DOPRINOSU PRAVU JER BIH TE JAKO RASTUZILO KADA BI SHVATIO KOLIKA JE RIMSKA PRAVNA GENIJALNOST.

[marko_13]

Комедија! Сукоб са Црквом!? Ок, имао га је и цар Душан па то није аргумент да није био хришћанин. Пази ово "Za dekarta se smatra u naucnim krugovima da iako je u javnost ipricao da je katolik da je potajno bio agnostik da ne bi da prostis drao kozu na siljak."  Наравно да се сматра у "научном круговима", који су христомрзитељски. Да не причамо о Пасклау, који је био изврстан теолог!

Имаш ли ти доказ у Њутновим списима да је био окултиста, осим што си погледао два докуметарца на Хисторију!?

Поента је да ме примораваш да опет кажем да лупаш, али ћу се суздржати, јер видим у чему је твој проблем. Сваки атеиста који каже да хришћанин не преиспитује, треба да савлада прво основе вере, па значи да верска настава итекако има смисла, да нам деца сутра не би робовала затуцаним атеистичким предрасудама.

[Млађони]

Комедија! Сукоб са Црквом!? Ок, имао га је и цар Душан па то није аргумент да није био хришћанин.

Nisam znao da su vladari-koljaci pravi hriscani. Ali dobro ako ti tako kazes. Ja u vasem opisu hriscanstva ne nalazim nijednog osvajaca - sto je CDS bio.

Пази ово "Za dekarta se smatra u naucnim krugovima da iako je u javnost ipricao da je katolik da je potajno bio agnostik da ne bi da prostis drao kozu na siljak."  Наравно да се сматра у "научном круговима", који су христомрзитељски.

Bravo za argument. A mozda su to rekli zato sto dokazi to govore? To izjavljuju najveci strucnjaci na temu filozofije i zivota renea decarta http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Gaukroger

Имаш ли ти доказ у Њутновим списима да је био окултиста, осим што си погледао два докуметарца на Хисторију!?

Imaju njutnove beleske za sve to. Sem ako nemas neku weirdo ideju da alhemija nije okutlna disciplina?

Поента је да ме примораваш да опет кажем да лупаш, али ћу се суздржати, јер видим у чему је твој проблем. Сваки атеиста који каже да хришћанин не преиспитује, треба да савлада прво основе вере, па значи да верска настава итекако има смисла, да нам деца сутра не би робовала затуцаним атеистичким предрасудама.

tu pricu drugom prosipaj, ocigledno ti smetaju ateisti i nemoj diskutovati sa nama i vredjati nas bezveze, corava posla.

Svoju nesposobnost logicko i kritickog razmisljanja si dokazao argumentom "hristomrziteljska naucna zajednica"

mislim svasta.

Jos da saznam da mislis da je Evolucija nije tacna  i da shvatim sa kim pricam i koliko ima sati.

[suza]

marko prica bi o rimljanima  i tom vremenu-nemora odma znaciti da neko mrzi  ,netreba se odma osjecati omrznut ako neke price il sta znam-pa sada da, da nebudu zatucani ,ali pitala sam zasto su onda crkveni poglavari samo bili i smjeli biti pismeni,niko neodgovara ,nije to mrzjna ako se pita

[marko_13]

Владари-кољачи!? Ово је ваљање од смеха... Страшно какво непознавање и мржња. Заиста сте фасцинатни, јер толика количина мржње је запањујућа.

Да, да, Википедија је савршен извор! Врло релевантан у начним круговима. Страшно како робујете марксистичким методама, па се после љутите када нас подсећате на комунисте.

Имају, покажи или наведи извор. Мада, вероватно ћемо морати сачекати неку репризу на Хисторију за то.

Не, ви сте ти који се само позивате на логику и науку, а најобичнији сте идеолози који немају основно знање, наука вам је само изговор, а формалну логику готово да не познајете. О критичком размишљању да не говоримо. Мада, ви сте критизери, ту сте доста добри, али критичко мишљење вам је страно.

[marko_13]

marko prica bi o rimljanima  i tom vremenu-nemora odma znaciti da neko mrzi  ,netreba se odma osjecati omrznut ako neke price il sta znam-pa sada da, da nebudu zatucani ,ali pitala sam zasto su onda crkveni poglavari samo bili i smjeli biti pismeni,niko neodgovara ,nije to mrzjna ako se pita

Извини а где су то САМО владари били писмени!?

[marko_13]

А иако си правник показујеш страшну немогућност разумевања и тумачења написаног. Дакле речено је у христомрзитељским научним круговима, а не заједници, што значи да постоје научни кругови који су христомрзитељски, а не да је научна заједница таква.

Претпостављам да сте морали имати основе хемренеутике, али изгледа да ниси био пажљив на предавањима.

[Passenger]

Lele bratac al si zapenio. Opusti se. Odajes utisak hriscanina koji bas mrzi, a hriscani bi trebalo da vole

[Млађони]

Владари-кољачи!? Ово је ваљање од смеха... Страшно какво непознавање и мржња. Заиста сте фасцинатни, јер толика количина мржње је запањујућа.

Ja ne mrzim nit cara dusana ni hriscanstvo. Ali on je bio vladar osvajaca, mnogo ljudi je ubijeno i umrlo od strane njega i njegove ruke.

Ja ga mrzim zato sto kazem istinu? Svasta.

Да, да, Википедија је савршен извор! Врло релевантан у начним круговима. Страшно како робујете марксистичким методама, па се после љутите када нас подсећате на комунисте.

kojim marksistickim metodama? Sa vikipedije sam ti citirao direktan tekst uputio na naucnika koji pise o tome, dao ti njegovo ime, imas tamo link za njegovu stranicu njegove papire? Sta oces da ti drzim lekcije i pretavanje?

Имају, покажи или наведи извор. Мада, вероватно ћемо морати сачекати неку репризу на Хисторију за то.

pa da znash da koristis vikipediju znao bi sam da vidis izvor:

   ^ a b Greene 2000, p. 39

   ^ a b Ritti, Grewe & Kessener 2007, p. 161; Grewe 2009, pp. 429–454

   ^ For a discussion on the importance of energy sources as a constraint on all pre-industrial economies see E.A.Wrigley 2002 'The Quest for the Industrial Revolution' Proceedings of the British Academy 121 , 147-170 available free online, enter '2002 lecture' in search at [1]/

   ^ a b Ritti, Grewe & Kessener 2007, p. 156, fn. 74

   ^ Michael Matheus: "Mittelalterliche Hafenkräne," in: Uta Lindgren (ed.): Europäische Technik im Mittelalter. 800-1400, Berlin 2001 (4th ed.), pp. 345-48 (345)

   ^ Chandler, Fiona "The Usborne Internet Linked Encyclopedia of the Roman World", page 80. Usborne Publishing 2001

   ^ Forman, Joan "The Romans", page 34. Macdonald Educational Ltd. 1975

   ^ J. Crow 2007 "Earth, walls and water in Late Antique Constantinople" in Technology in Transition AD 300-650 in ed. L.Lavan, E.Zanini & A. Sarantis Brill, Leiden

   ^ a b Laur-Belart 1988, p. 51–52, 56, fig. 42

   ^ A. Archontidou 2005 Un atelier de preparation de l'alun a partir de l'alunite dans l'isle de Lesbos in L'alun de Mediterranee ed P.Borgard et al.

   ^ Galliazzo 1995, p. 92

   ^ R.W.Bulliet, The Camel and the Wheel 1975; 197

   ^ Giannichedda 2007 "Metal production in Late Antiquity" in Technology in Transition AD 300-650 ed L. Lavan E.Zanini & A. Sarantis Brill, Leiden; p200

   ^ Smith 1971, pp. 33–35; Schnitter 1978, p. 31; Schnitter 1987a, p. 12; Schnitter 1987c, p. 80; Hodge 1992, p. 82, table 39; Hodge 2000, p. 332, fn. 2

   ^ S. Agusta-Boularot et J-l. Paillet 1997 "le Barrage et l'Aqueduc occidental de Glanum: le premier barrage-vout de l'historire des techniques?" Revue Archeologiquepp27-78

   ^ Schnitter 1978, p. 32; Schnitter 1987a, p. 13; Schnitter 1987c, p. 80; Hodge 1992, p. 92; Hodge 2000, p. 332, fn. 2

   ^ a b Schnitter 1987a, p. 12; James & Chanson 2002

   ^ Smith 1971, pp. 35f.; James & Chanson 2002

   ^ a b Arenillas & Castillo 2003

   ^ Schnitter 1987a, p. 13; Hodge 2000, pp. 337f.

   ^ Vogel 1987, p. 50

   ^ Schnitter 1978, p. 29; Schnitter 1987b, pp. 60, table 1, 62; James & Chanson 2002; Arenillas & Castillo 2003

   ^ D.L.Carroll Dating the Foot-powered loom: the Coptic evidence American Journal of Archaeology 1985 vol. 89; 168-73

   ^ I. Longhurst 2007 Ambix 54.3 p299-304 The identity of Pliny's Flos salis and Roman Perfume

   ^ C-H Wunderlich "Light and economy: an essay about the economy of pre-historic and ancient lamps" in Nouveautes lychnologiques 2003

   ^ C. van Driel-Murray Ancient skin processing and the impact of Rome on facenew22222222 technology in Le Travail du cuir de la prehistoire 2002 Antibes

   ^ Ritti, Grewe & Kessener 2007, p. 154; Grewe 2009, pp. 429–454

   ^ Smith 1970, pp. 60f.; Smith 1971, p. 26

   ^ Hodge 1992, p. 87

   ^ Casson, Lionel (1995). Ships and Seamanship in the Ancient World. The Johns Hopkins University Press. ISBN 0-8018-5130-0, Appendix

   ^ Casson 1995, pp. 243–245

   ^ Casson 1954

   ^ White 1978, p. 255

   ^ Campbell 1995, pp. 8–11

   ^ Basch 2001, p. 63–64

   ^ Makris 2002, p. 96

   ^ Friedman & Zoroglu 2006, pp. 113–114

   ^ Pryor & Jeffreys 2006, pp. 153–161

   ^ Castro et al. 2008, pp. 1–2

   ^ Whitewright 2009

   ^ Il Museo delle navi romane di Nemi : Moretti, Giuseppe, d. 1945. Roma : La Libreria dello stato

   ^ H Schneider Technology in The Cambridge Economic History of the Greco-Roman World 2007; p157 CUP

   ^ Stanford University: Forma Urbis Romae

Не, ви сте ти који се само позивате на логику и науку, а најобичнији сте идеолози који немају основно знање, наука вам је само изговор, а формалну логику готово да не познајете. О критичком размишљању да не говоримо. Мада, ви сте критизери, ту сте доста добри, али критичко мишљење вам је страно.

I ja ti pristojno kao svakom nromalnom coveku pruzim prvenstveno popularne izvore (wikipediju ) pa ti sve lepo obrazlozim i pruzim josh dodatnih izvora, koji naucnici su radili papire na te teme i slichno. I ti mi onda izjavis da ja nemam kriticko razmisljanje da mi je nauka samo izgovor itd?

E pa brale izvini, al dosta si me vredjao. Ne znam ni st osa tobom pricam ti si teolog nikad se neces ni baviti pristojnom naukom, i imas taj luksuz da nemas pojma o tome, al da pricas po forumu u isto vreme.

А иако си правник показујеш страшну немогућност разумевања и тумачења написаног. Дакле речено је у христомрзитељским научним круговима, а не заједници, што значи да постоје научни кругови који су христомрзитељски, а не да је научна заједница таква.

Tumacim ja odlichno, ako nesto smatra 99 % naucnog sveta a ti to nazoves hristomrziteljima? sta da ti kazem?

I zasto nazoves hristomrziteljima? Zato sto kazu da covek nije bio hriscanin zato sto za to ima dokaza? To je Hristomrznja?

sta li ja pa pricam sa tobom.

[marko_13]

Lele bratac al si zapenio. Opusti se. Odajes utisak hriscanina koji bas mrzi, a hriscani bi trebalo da vole

Напротив, тешко да ја икога мрзим. Незнање је то које код мене изазива алергијску реакцију и на њега делујем праведним гневом.

[Млађони]

Lele bratac al si zapenio. Opusti se. Odajes utisak hriscanina koji bas mrzi, a hriscani bi trebalo da vole

Ma mani ga vidis da je nalozeni facenew22222222. Misli da dobija neke poene ako se pegla sa ateistima da je bolji vernik., ili tako nesto. Ako mu to zavrsava posao neka prica tako bezveze, ja sam mu sve lepo argumentovao izlozio pa nek radi sa time sta 'oce.

Verovatno nema vise od 20 godina, zavrsavanje puberteta je za sve nas (muskarce ) tezak period bio sam gori od njega.