Da katolik postane pravoslavac - zašto?

[Zeebedee]

A five-year study commissioned by the nation’s Roman Catholic bishops to provide a definitive answer to what caused the church’s sexual abuse crisis has concluded that neither the all-male celibate priesthood nor homosexuality were to blame.

Instead, the report says, the abuse occurred because priests who were poorly prepared and monitored, and were under stress, landed amid the social and sexual turmoil of the 1960s and ’70s.

Known occurrences of sexual abuse of minors by priests rose sharply during those decades, the report found, and the problem grew worse when the church’s hierarchy responded by showing more care for the perpetrators than the victims.

The “blame Woodstock” explanation has been floated by bishops since the church was engulfed by scandal in the United States in 2002 and by Pope Benedict XVI after it erupted in Europe in 2010.

But this study is likely to be regarded as the most authoritative analysis of the scandal in the Catholic Church in America. The study, initiated in 2006, was conducted by a team of researchers at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York City at a cost of $1.8 million. About half was provided by the bishops, with additional money contributed by Catholic organizations and foundations. The National Institute of Justice, the research agency of the United States Department of Justice, supplied about $280,000.

The report was released Wednesday by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops in Washington, but the Religion News Service published an account of the report on its Web site on Tuesday. A copy of the report was also obtained by The New York Times. The bishops have said they hope the report will advance the understanding and prevention of child sexual abuse in society at large.

The researchers concluded that it was not possible for the church, or for anyone, to identify abusive priests in advance. Priests who abused minors have no particular “psychological characteristics,” “developmental histories” or mood disorders that distinguished them from priests who had not abused, the researchers found.

Since the scandal broke, conservatives in the church have blamed gay priests for perpetrating the abuse, while liberals have argued that the all-male, celibate culture of the priesthood was the cause. This report will satisfy neither flank.

The report notes that homosexual men began entering the seminaries “in noticeable numbers” from the late 1970s through the 1980s. By the time this cohort entered the priesthood, in the mid-1980s, the reports of sexual abuse of minors by priests began to drop and then to level off. If anything, the report says, the abuse decreased as more gay priests began serving the church.

Many more boys than girls were victimized, the report says, not because the perpetrators were gay, but simply because the priests had more access to boys than to girls, in parishes, schools and extracurricular activities.

In one of the most counterintuitive findings, the report says that fewer than 5 percent of the abusive priests exhibited behavior consistent with pedophilia, which it defines as a “psychiatric disorder that is characterized by recurrent fantasies, urges and behaviors about prepubescent children.

“Thus, it is inaccurate to refer to abusers as ‘pedophile priests,’ ” the report says.

That finding is likely to prove controversial, in part because the report employs a definition of “prepubescent” children as those age 10 and under. Using this cutoff, the report found that only 22 percent of the priests’ victims were prepubescent.

The American Psychiatric Association’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders classifies a prepubescent child as generally age 13 or younger. If the John Jay researchers had used that cutoff, a vast majority of the abusers’ victims would have been considered prepubescent.

The report, “The Causes and Context of Sexual Abuse of Minors by Catholic Priests in the United States, 1950-2002,” is the second produced by researchers at John Jay College. The first, on the “nature and scope” of the problem, was released in 2004.

Even before seeing it, victims advocates attacked the report as suspect because it relies on data provided by the church’s dioceses and religious orders.

Anne Barrett Doyle, the co-director of BishopAccountability.org, a Web site that compiles reports on abuse cases, said, “There aren’t many dioceses where prosecutors have gotten involved, but in every single instance there’s a vast gap — a multiplier of two, three or four times — between the numbers of perpetrators that the prosecutors find and what the bishops released.”

David Clohessy, national director of the Chicago-based Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, said that while the report contained no surprises, it had nonetheless been a disappointment because it did not include recommendations for far-reaching reforms, including limiting the power of bishops. Mr. Clohessy said this was critical because bishops had covered up many instances of sexual abuse by priests in the past.

“Predictably and conveniently, the bishops have funded a report that says what they’ve said all along, and what they wanted to hear back,” he said. “Fundamentally, they’ve found that they needn’t even consider any substantive changes.”

Robert M. Hoatson, a priest and a founder of Road to Recovery, which offers counseling and referrals to victims, said the facenew22222222 that the sexual and social upheavals of past decades were to blame for the abuse of children was an attempt to shift responsibility from church leaders. Mr. Hoatson said he had been among those who had been abused.“It deflects responsibility from the bishops and puts it on to a sociological problem,” he said. “This is a people problem. It wasn’t because of the ’70s, and it wasn’t the ’60s, and it wasn’t because of the 1450s. This was something individuals did.”

Kristine Ward, the chairwoman of the National Survivor Advocates Coalition, said the cultural explanation did not appear to explain why abuse cases within the Catholic church have shaken places from Australia and Ireland to South America. “Does the culture of the U.S. in the 1960s explain that? It’s hard to believe,” she said.

William Donohue, president of the Catholic League, a conservative Catholic group, however said he believes permissiveness in the church in the 1960s and 1970s - particularly at seminaries - had been a significant reason for the rise in sexual abuse. Mr. Donohue said that while he generally supported the report’s findings, he believed that the study seemed to have purposefully avoided linking abuse cases with the increase in the number of gay men who became priests during the 1960s and 1970s. “The authors go through all sorts of contortions to deny the obvious - that obviously, homosexuality was at work,” Mr. Donohue said.

In Philadelphia, where a grand jury in February found that as many as 37 priests suspected of behavior ranging from sexual abuse to inappropriate actions were still serving in ministry. The archdiocese initially rejected the grand jury’s findings, but soon suspended 26 priests from ministry.

An essay in the Catholic magazine Commonweal last week by Ana Maria Catanzaro, who heads the Archdiocese of Philadelphia’s sexual-abuse review board, which is supposed to advise the archdiocese on how to handle abuse cases, said that the board was shocked to learn about the dozens of cases uncovered by the grand jury. Her essay raised questions about whether bishops provide accurate data even to their own, in-house review boards.

Still, the John Jay report says that when it comes to analyzing the incidence and causes of sexual abuse, “No organization has undertaken a study of itself in the manner of the Catholic Church.”

Because there are no comparable studies conducted by other institutions, religious or secular, the report says, “It is impossible to accurately compare the rate of sexual abuse within the Catholic Church to rates of abuse in other organizations.

IZVOR JE NYTIMES I OVDE JE BILA VEST NEDELJE POSEBNO DEBILIZAM OKO TOGA STA JE PO KATOLICKOJ CRKVI PEDOFILIJA

ETO SAMO DA VIDIS KOLIKO SU SLEPI I KAKO SE SAMOUBIJAJU.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/18/us/18bishops.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&sq=catholic%20sex%20abuse%20scandal%20&st=cse&scp=1

[Zeebedee]

PAZI OVO IZIZVESTAJA

In one of the most counterintuitive findings, the report says that fewer than 5 percent of the abusive priests exhibited behavior consistent with pedophilia, which it defines as a “psychiatric disorder that is characterized by recurrent fantasies, urges and behaviors about prepubescent children.

“Thus, it is inaccurate to refer to abusers as ‘pedophile priests,’ ” the report says.

That finding is likely to prove controversial, in part because the report employs a definition of “prepubescent” children as those age 10 and under. Using this cutoff, the report found that only 22 percent of the priests’ victims were prepubescent.

facenew22222222 0304_smile4 0304_smile4 prstgore  

I OVO:

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/bill-donohue-child-molesting-priests-weren

[Zayron]

PAZI OVO IZIZVESTAJA

In one of the most counterintuitive findings, the report says that fewer than 5 percent of the abusive priests exhibited behavior consistent with pedophilia, which it defines as a “psychiatric disorder that is characterized by recurrent fantasies, urges and behaviors about prepubescent children.

“Thus, it is inaccurate to refer to abusers as ‘pedophile priests,’ ” the report says.

That finding is likely to prove controversial, in part because the report employs a definition of “prepubescent” children as those age 10 and under. Using this cutoff, the report found that only 22 percent of the priests’ victims were prepubescent.

facenew22222222 0304_smile4 0304_smile4 prstgore  

I OVO:

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/bill-donohue-child-molesting-priests-weren

Daj Zeebedee, nemoj da ja sjednem za te engleske članke i pozabavim se temeljitije njima pa na kraju dokažem da nijedan nije nikakav vjerodostojan članak koji ima ikakve veze s katoličkom Crkvom, pogotovu to ne mogu biti nikakva zvanična saopštenja ni stavovi KC ili Vatikana. Sporiji sam u prevođenju tog engleskog ali već nasumičnim pogledom vidim da ti članci stvarno nemaju nikakve veze s oficijalnim a jedino važećim i relevantnim Crkvenim stavovima ni saopštenjima.

[Zeebedee]

Upravo si ocito nemas pojma sta je ovo jer je u pitanju zvanican izvestaj rC

[Zayron]

Upravo si ocito nemas pojma sta je ovo jer je u pitanju zvanican izvestaj rC

Stavovi američke biskupske konferencije nisu i ne mogu biti zvaničnim oficijalnim stavovima katoličke Crkve, inače da mogu onda bi nam Papa bio Obama a ne Ratzinger, hahahaha! Te "studije" mi ni ne spominji, tamo u USA je to normalno hodat kod psihijatra, tamo ima svako svog psihijatra. Tako slično je normalno i gađat se u novinama "expertnim studijama". Naručiš, zaplatiš si a imaš studiju o čemu god hoćeš i kakvu god hoćeš, ako treba i o ljekovitom utjecaju ptičjeg mlijeka na pubertetske akne, ti mene jednom studijom, ja tebe trima, ti mene šesterama, ja tebe šesnaesterama. Vjerovatno ih tamo smarali tim nekim svakojakim "studijama" pa i oni naručili jednu nekakvu takvu da je imaju u svoju odbranu, nije na odmet.

[Zeebedee]

Brate ti si klasican primer zasto propadate kako u Usa tako i u svetu. Naterao si ma cak i da procm vise nego sto me cela situacija interesuje; sama cvinjenica da ste na sudjenja i odstete u USA platili do sada PREKO 2 MILIJARDE DOLARA je zastrasujuca; a ti opet zabijaj glavu u pseak U Bostonskoj episkopiji ste recimo prodfali preko 70% Crkava samo da bi isplatili razne odstete.

A vi se zanosite da su to udari na RC iz mrznje ili whatever.

[Zeebedee]

Ali i da d0odam; povrh svega ucenja RC i vodjenje iste su dve razlicite stvari. Ukoliko nema Prav. crkve u nekom mestu bez razmisljanja bi otisao u RC na molitvu. protestantske Crkve ne bi ni razmatrao.

[Михајло]

Кад се православни "искале" на католицима, угасиш интернет браузер и готова ствар или једноставно одеш на други форум.

Кад се римокатолици "искале" на православнима буде мртвих као у причи.

319.gif

[Ignjatije]

[Ignjatije]

U ruci drzi izlomljeni krst,iza njega je izokrenuti krst  319.gif

Papa! Covek za sve ljude!!!

[suza]

Da katolik postane pravoslavac - zašto? ili pravoslavac obrnuto ,imal ta tema negdje

[Zayron]

@ Limes

naravno da imamo ali to nije tema ovog topika. Pedofilija i silovanje su zlocini o kojima uvek treba pricati. Silovanjem se zrtva unistava psiholoski zauvek.

Koji si ti demagog, pa ni taj nacistički ministar propagande Goering ti nije ravan! Limes ti lijepo piše, hajde braćo Srbi, ostavite se toga, imamo mi i svojih problema za rješavanje i kako to uopšte nije ni tema topika a ti mu odgovaraš:

Pedofilija i silovanje su zlocini o kojima uvek treba pricati.

Znači nije pedofilija tema topika ali o njoj BUDEMO razgovarati zato što su to: zlocini o kojima uvek treba pricati.

Takav si pravdoljubac i pravednik, neviđeno nešto! Ali kako o toj pedofiliji razgovarati koja svejedno nije ni temom razgovora i to je posebna priča za sebe! Pa si osuo rafalnu paljbu po KC a ni jednim slovom ti nije palo napamet spomenuti i osuditi iste takve te zločine u PC. Znači postoje samo katolički popovi prznitelji djece, pravoslavni isti takvi ne postoje ili šta? To onda nisu zločini o kojima se treba pričati jer su u pitanju pravoslavni popovi? A na ovom topiku se sasvim normalno razgovaralo sve dok se nisi pojavio na ti na ovom topiku, link je dole i izjavio:

Cinjenioca je da je SPC prepuna mitova, nacionalizma, iskljucivosti; ali dragi moj brate M idrase radi toga ode tamo gde svega toga ima jos vise i gde je mrznja i nacionalizam trademark? da se svi zajedno sastave muslimani, ateisti, agnostici, jevreji i slicni opet nisu vise zajedno naudili Hristosu i hriscanstvu kao sto je to uradila Rimokatolicka C. pocevsi od Papizma, Galileja,genocida po J Americi, fasizma, pedofilije pa da ne nabrajamo dalje...

Između ostalog tačno to isto (crvenim) si  misle katolički ziloti o pravoslavnoj Crkvi, ali u obrnutom gardu,samo tamo zamijeni taj naziv KC za PC, stvarno zanimljivo kako se u tom tako slažete vi i oni! Koji istomišljenici!

Znači da zaključim, bitno i najbitnije je bilo opet iskoristiti temu za svoju propagandnu kampanju i promociju, prevrnuti i obrnuti je kako bilo i svejedno kojim načinom te od nje po svaku cijenu napraviti pljuvačnicu pristupačnu svima i sa koje će se iz široka i obilato pljuvati po katoličkoj Crkvi i bjesumočno vrijeđati sve što je s njom u vezi, od vjernika do arhijereja i Pape. Dakle da rekapituliram, tema topika nije pedofilija ali ćemo je obavezno tu spomenuti, bila- nebila, nije važno, naravno tu katoličku samo, o toj pravoslavnoj ne može biti ni spomena, to ni slučajno! A pri tom ćemo te katolike tako izvrijeđati tako da im nikada u životu ni slučajno ne padne na pamet htjeti preći na pravoslavlje nakon što pročitaju ovako nešto. Tako si to mislio, to je taj misionarski apostolski pravoslavni duh na koji se stalno ovdje pozivate kao misionarski hrišćanski Forum?

Ovdje je taj post gdje se isključivo tvojom intervencijom tema zvrtla u ono što je tebi konveniralo i trebalo - pljuvanje po KC, a dalje je išla tim smjerom kojim si ti htio a stigli smo ovdje, gotova priča:

https://www.pouke.org/forum/index.php/topic,16370.msg501562.html#msg501562

[Zayron]

Zeebedee: Prvo da ne bude zabune; ja Katolickoj Crkvi apsolutno priznajem svete tajne; ali nacin na koji se ta organizacija vodi je kriminal koji je stvroio ateisticku Evropu.

Ta navodno "ateistička" katoličko-protestantska Evropa se na jedvite jade odbranila pred nasrtajima "pobožnih" Lenjinovih i Staljinovih "vjernika", tako si to mislio! Skoro kompletna populacija, nekoliko generacija jedne ogromne pravoslave Crkve se preobrnula u ateističku skoro satanističku politolatrijsku zločinačku monster sektu zahvaljujući čemu? Samo zahvaljujući načinu i duhu kojiim se vodila pravoslavna carska Rusija i ruska pravoslavna Crkva, mislim tim njena do srži ispolitizovana hijerarhija i protunarodni klir, tako je to bilo! To je taj vaš najveći izum u istoriji i to su plodovi i rezultati te tamo duhovnosti koja je to iznjedrila! Po plodovima se drvo poznaje! Rusija je bila tako "duboko prožeta duhom hriščanstva i spiritualna" a to je bio rezultat te njene "spiritualnosti". Za razliku od nje Evropa nije bila "spiritualna" kao Rusija već "ateistička" kako ti kažeš pa se jedva odbranila pred najezdom takve te duboke "spiritualnosti" sa istoka. Zaista si neviđen demagog i manipulator, Zeebedee! Ovako nešto u životu nisam pročitao! Čestitam!

 sHa_sarcasticlol

[Zeebedee]

Eto oslobodili ste se okova te strasne Rusije, sta cehe sprecava da imaju vise svestenika nego porno glumica kao danas ili poljake da ukapiraju da je katolicanstvo Hristos a ne mrznja i fasizam kako to poljaci zamisljaju?

[Zayron]

Eto oslobodili ste se okova te strasne Rusije, sta cehe sprecava da imaju vise svestenika nego porno glumica kao danas ili poljake da ukapiraju da je katolicanstvo Hristos a ne mrznja i fasizam kako to poljaci zamisljaju?

Glavno da kod vas sad vlada simfonija među pravoslavljem i monarhijama kojih više nema, danas nepostojećim dinastijama i vladarima koje ste sve skinuli vi sami sa prestola, sinovi i kćeri pravoslavnih Crkvi, ponosite se time! Niste se smirili dok ih niste sve isprašili s prestola. To ste tako naučili na svom vjeronauku da treba bune dizati i carevima i kraljevima glave skidati? Pokažite mi pravoslavnu zemlju gdje još vlada ta vaša neka monarhija, dinastija i ta harmonična simfonija među njima!