Срђан К.

Да ли таква особа може у зрелости да има потомство? Колико ја знам не. Када говоримо о хомосексуализму (и разним варијантама које одступају од хетеросексуалности) у питању су аномалије које су  неплодне гране еволутивног стабла. И ако би занемарили религијски став по овом питању, гледано са становишта науке (иако то нико не сме да каже отворено), хомосексуалност је грешка, јер (са становишта науке) смисао живота је продужење врсте, преношење најбољих гена, гена јединки најспособнијих за преживљавање, а тога нема у овом случају. Хомосексуални однос је јалов, хермафродити су јалови, не могу да се размножавају ни простом деобом, нити да промене пол (чак ни када се оперишу и кљукају хормонима). Разлика је непремостива, јер је генетска: мушкарци имају XY хромозоме, а жене XX - то никакав медицински третман не може да реши. Поздрав.

Od svih vas koji zastupate prava LGBT+ populacije nisam cuo odgovor na samo jedno pitanje(neprestano okolisate i iznosite svoja vidjenja, "naucne" dokaze, a tema ima jasan naziv): sta cemo sa onim sto su Oci kroz Pismo ispovedali kroz vekove, navodeci sodomiju(Oci je tako zovu, neka se ljuti ko hoce) kao smrtni greh?
Ako moze neko, neka mi konkretno odgovori na pitanje, bez da me uci i da okolisa. Samo da podsetim po ko zna koji put: nigde u Pismu i Ocima necete naci nikakvog opravdanja, sem osude.

Od svih vas koji zastupate prava LGBT+ populacije nisam cuo odgovor na samo jedno pitanje(neprestano okolisate i iznosite svoja vidjenja, "naucne" dokaze, a tema ima jasan naziv): sta cemo sa onim sto su Oci kroz Pismo ispovedali kroz vekove, navodeci sodomiju(Oci je tako zovu, neka se ljuti ko hoce) kao smrtni greh?
Ako moze neko, neka mi konkretno odgovori na pitanje, bez da me uci i da okolisa. Samo da podsetim po ko zna koji put: nigde u Pismu i Ocima necete naci nikakvog opravdanja, sem osude.

Улазим ја данас на  Каленићу,  да купим  кафу 3у1 , када тамо ни више ни мање (као мали модерни мини  кафе бар) него на једној столици седи транвестит у розе јакни, штиклицама,  женској фризури, све са накитом . Ја бленем, гледам у њега, и у свој тој забезекнутости заборавих да узмем кафицу коју сам платила.  Враћам се по кафицу, кад њега нема. Размишљам да није било привиђење  све се то збило у пар секунди, ди се изгуби за тако кратко време, а баш се био разбашкарио. Било ме срамота да питам продавачице да ли ми се то само учинило.   

Nema tu oprdeljivanja: bicu za DS ili SNS, navijacu za Zvezdu ili Partizan... Ovo je, hriscani, pitanje zivota ili smrti, spasenje ili vecne pogibije... Tu nema izbora, ne verujte Satani... Homosex nije istina, to je golema obmana i laz...

Bog je dao jedno, djavo "nudi" nesto drugo, nesto sto ne donosi blagoslov i srecu, kao sto on inace uvek i cini. On je otac lazi i dao vam je laz, da u nju verujete i govorite da je to isto kao i Istina Bozija... Ne ide to tako, braco krscani...

Hriscani ovako misle i veruju... Drugacije ne...

Hetero je ono sto je Bog dao, blagosiljajuci Adama i Evu.
Sve ostalo je manipulosanje prirodom, koju je Bog dao, krsenje Njegove zapovesti, On to nije naznacio, nije blagoslovio. 

To vise niko ne zna... Ispravljamo rep magarcu, ali slaba vajda...

Ako imam pisu, sta sam? 

Ako imam pisu, sta sam? 

To vise niko ne zna... Ispravljamo rep magarcu, ali slaba vajda...

Ali ne donosi spasenje i zivot vecni. O tome se radi. Nema spasenja. Kako to da Crkva nekome dozvoli, a zna da ce vecno poginuti???

Da, ali ajd' sad da primenimo ikonomiju na bludnika i preljubnika, .... koja je ikonomija za njih analogno homo ikonomiji... kako za onog koji menja zene da primenimo ikonomiju, da li on mora ipak da se bori i da ne cini blud sa zenama jer je to greh po veri i da nadje neku zenu i da sa njom pokusa da osnuje brak i onda to nije blud i nije greh,i tu moze neka ikonomija dok se vremenom se ne upoznaju i osnuju crkveni brak - znaci u tom procesu i slucaju nemamo vise blud kao greh,.... ili, za preljubnika koji je rasturio brak i koji treba prvo da odradi neku epitimiju za to svoje delo i onda tek mozda ikonomija da moze da ima 2 brak u koji ulazi kao pokajnik za greh preljube,..... ali i to opet ako napravi preljubu opet moze epitimija i 3 brak, ... ali vise nema dalje vise nema ikonomija za 4 brak ako opet ucini preljubu, ostaje mu ta preljuba kao greh i mora da ima epitimiju i vise nema mogucnost braka i zadovoljavanja svoje sex zelje....(sta ce onda da radi jadnik...)
I, sad hocemo ikonomiju za ono sto je samo po sebi greh i bezakonje, pa kakva tu ikonomija moze da bude, kada nema ikonomije za greh bluda i preljube kao samog cina i delovanja, kako onda moze da bude ikonomija za sam cin homo delovanja koje je isto greh kao i blud i preljuba .... i sad ovi imaju epitimiju za svoj greh ,.... dok homo koji su u vezi i praktikuju homo, nemaju nista njima ima ikonomija za ono sto je greh na delu, dok za ove bludnike i preljubnike nema ikonomija nego epitimija za konkretno delo.... i to je jednostavno nonsens i nema tu neke velike filozofije, greh je greh i svako ako je u crkvi i ako veruje treba da se bori protiv greha i bludnik sa svojim grehom i preljubnici i ubice i pijanice i mrzitelji ljudi sa svojim gresima i naravno onaj koji ima homo sklonost sa tim svojim grehom i strascu...

Oni su u toj vezi iz istog razloga iz kog smo ti i ili ja u vezi sa nekom ženom. (Ako govorimo o gejevima koji su to od malena; a ako govorimo o razvratnicima, to je za svaku osudu.)
To je tačno, barem po mom iskustvu. Mnogo više im je izražen seksualni nagon nego heteroseksualcima. Možda ne kod svih, ali je tako kod ovih par koje ja poznajem. Evo i naš Panaret Liturgiju smatra božanstvenom zato što ga pali muška brada. 

Bolje onda da ni ne znaš! Izvrnuo bi se na ledja kad bi shvatio koliko je medju monasima i katoličkim i pravoslavnim gejeva. A oni su sav svoj život posvetili uzdržavanju od svega, i od sexa i od svega ostalog, to im je glavno životno pozvanje.  

Kanoni su jasni po pitanju pricesca-godine zabrane, ako se sodomit ne pokaje... To znaci da je sodomstvo greh... Stvar je jasna...

Izmanipulisani od strane đavola... Prvo ide predlog... Dosadila ova tema, al uvek ima onih koji će pričati  da je to normalno...

Athenagoras
For those who have set up a market for fornication and established infamous resorts for the young for every kind of vile pleasure, – who do not abstain even from males, males with males committing shocking abominations, outraging all the noblest and comeliest bodies in all sorts of ways, so dishonoring the fair workmanship of God (Plea for Christians 34 [A.D. 177]).
Clement of Alexandria
The fate of the Sodomites was judgment to those who had done wrong and instruction to those who hear. The Sodomites had fallen into uncleanness because of much luxury. They practiced adultery shamelessly and burned with insane love for boys (The Instructor 3:8 [A.D. 193]).
Tertullian
 
So, too, whoever enjoys any other than nuptial intercourse, in whatever place, and in the person of whatever woman, makes himself guilty of adultery and fornication. Accordingly, among us, secret connections as well — connections, that is, not first professed in presence of the Church— run risk of being judged akin to adultery and fornication; nor must we let them, if thereafter woven together by the covering of marriage, elude the charge. But all the other frenzies of passions— impious both toward the bodies and toward the sexes — beyond the laws of nature, we banish not only from the threshold, but from all shelter of the Church, because they are not sins, but monstrosities (Modesty 4 [A.D. 220]).
 
Origen
But observe here that every great sin is a loss of the talents of the master of the house, and such sins are committed by fornicators, adulterers, abusers of themselves with men, effeminate, idolaters, murderers (Commentary on Matthew 14:10 [A.D. 248]).
While those who call themselves wise have despised these virtues, and have wallowed in the filth of sodomy, in lawless lust, "men with men working that which is unseemly" (Against Celsus 7:49 [A.D. 248]).
Cyprian
Oh, if placed on that lofty watchtower, you could gaze into the secret places – if you could open the closed doors of sleeping chambers and recall their dark recesses to the perception of sight – you would behold things done by immodest persons that no chaste eye could look upon; you would see what even to see is a crime; you would see what people imbruted with the madness of vice deny that they have done, and yet hasten to do – men with frenzied lusts rushing upon men, doing things that afford no gratification even to those who do them  (Letters 1:9 [A.D. 253]).
Eusebius
Having forbidden all unlawful marriage, all unseemly practices, and the union of women with women and men with men, [the Word] adds: "Do not defile yourselves with any of these things, for in all these things the nations were defiled, which I will drive out before you [Lev. 18:24] (Proof of the Gospel 4:10 [A.D. 319]).
Basil the Great
 
He who is guilty of unseemliness with males will be under discipline for the same time as adulterers (Letters 217:62 [A.D. 367]).
 
Apocalypse of Paul
And I saw other men and women covered with dust, and their countenance was like blood, and they were in a pit of pitch and sulphur and running down into a fiery river, and I asked: Sir, who are these? And he said to me: These are they who committed the iniquity of Sodom and Gomorrah, the male with the male, for which reason they unceasingly pay the penalties (39 [A.D. 380]).
John Chrysostom
For such is the burning of Sodom, and that conflagration! And they know it well that have been at the place, and have seen with their eyes that scourge divinely sent, and the effect of the lightnings from above. (Jude 7.) Consider how great is that sin, to have forced hell to appear even before its time! For whereas many thought scorn of His words, by His deeds did God show them the image thereof in a certain novel way. For that rain was unwonted, for that the intercourse was contrary to nature, and it deluged the land, since lust had done so with their souls. Wherefore also the rain was the opposite of the customary rain. Now not only did it fail to stir up the womb of the earth to the production of fruits, but made it even useless for the reception of seed. For such was also the intercourse of the men, making a body of this sort more worthless than the very land of Sodom. And what is there more detestable than a man who hath pandered himself, or what more execrable? Oh, what madness! Oh, what distraction! Whence came this lust lewdly revelling and making man's nature all that enemies could? or even worse than that, by as much as the soul is better than the body. Oh, ye that were more senseless than irrational creatures, and more shameless than dogs! for in no case does such intercourse take place with them, but nature acknowledgeth her own limits (Homily 4 on Romans [A.D. 391]).
Augustine
Therefore those offences which be contrary to nature are everywhere and at all times to be held in detestation and punished; such were those of the Sodomites, which should all nations commit, they should all be held guilty of the same crime by the divine law, which hath not so made men that they should in that way abuse one another. For even that fellowship which should be between God and us is violated, when that same nature of which He is author is polluted by the perversity of lust (Confessions 3:8:15 [A.D. 397-400]).
I read also what is added, a little further on, in the same epistle: "Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God (Letter 29:5 [A.D. 395]).
Sulpitius Severus
He supposed them to be human beings, and welcomed them to share in his hospitality, and provided an entertainment for them in his house, but the wicked youth of the town demanded the new arrivals for impure purposes. Lot offered them his daughters in place of his guests, but they did not accept the offer, having a desire rather for things forbidden, and then Lot himself was laid hold of with vile designs. The angels, however, speedily rescued him from danger, by causing blindness to fall upon the eyes of these unchaste sinners (Sacred History 1:6 [A.D. 403]).
John Cassian
For whoever after baptism and the knowledge of God falls into that death, must know that he will either have to be cleansed, not by the daily grace of Christ, i.e., an easy forgiveness, which our Lord when at any moment He is prayed to, is wont to grant to our errors, but by a lifelong affliction of penitence and penal sorrow, or else will be hereafter consigned to the punishment of eternal fire for them, as the same Apostle thus declares: “effeminate, nor defilers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous persons, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners shall possess the kingdom of God” (Conference 23:15 [circa A.D. 430]).

'Ajde nesto na srpskom ili eventualno engleskom, ovo na ceskom i ostalim jezicima nije u trendu, ne razbiramo

jooj, ovo ne savetujem osobama sa slabim srcem i tananim osecanjima  da citaju sta kaze sv.Jovan Zlatoust o homo prici :
http://sabornik.rs/index.php/crkvene-aktuelnosti/rec-pastira/424-zlatousti-o-homoseksualnosti
 

Moze jedan orden i za mene?
Dete sam Crkve otkad za se znam, tako da bi lepo bilo da dobijem orden...

Ma, ja samo na glas razmisljam, nista licno...

Da, to si sasvim u pravu! Ali diskutovati je korisno upravo zbog tih koji je ne shvataju.