Народ у Србији је без наде - понижавајуће сиромаштво

[Млађони]

  On 26. 4. 2014. at 19:56, Crveni Baron рече

Ima jedna stvar koja je toliko ocigledna da meni nije jasno kako to ljudi ne vide. A stvar je sledeca.

 

 

Probloem je sto ti ne raazumes kako ide proces.Kao po obicaju.

 

Da bi ti dao dobru platu moras da zaradis da napravis nesto sto se zove visak zarade.

 

Uzmimo za primer minijaturnu drzavu gde imas 20 radno sposobnih ljudi od kojih 15 radi peet ne radi.

Od tih 15, 5 radi u firmi koja proizvodi sapun, 5 radi u firmi koja proizvodi sampon i 5 radi u firmi koja proizvodi dezadorans.

 

Zadnjih pet ne radi.

 

Tih pet prima platu po 200 evra. 

Gazde polako stvaraju prihod. Taj prihod stede i uloze u povecavanje obima priozodnje. Sa povecavanjem obima proizvodnje dolazi do novog radnog mesta. Sada od pet ljudi koji ne radi, dolaze tri nova zaposlena, samim tim u svakoj priozvodnji radi sada po 6 osoba od toga sada dve ne rade.

 

Jos 3 osobe imaju platu i dolazi josh brzi rast viska zarade, opet taj visak zarade sada ustede i uloze u josh 2 radna mesta i u povecanje plata.

 

Tako stvari funkcionisu.

A to o cemu ti pricas je kako Marks zamislja ekonomiju, a u toj ekonomiji nema stednje - visak se ne ulaze vec se raspodeljuje na plate. Tu trange-frange privredu si mogao da vids vise manje u svim propalim ekonomijama Yugoslovenskoj, Sovjetskoj, Kubanskoj, Severno korejskoj, 

[Иван ♪♫]

  On 26. 4. 2014. at 20:03, Crveni Baron рече

Bio ja letos kuci i otisao na sisanje, 150 dinara ...ja zapanjen, pa pisanje na pumpi u nemackoj kosta 70 centi ...

 

hahahahaha ...ćelava latinica...    :1503348ufz3z4yl5d:

joj al' me slatko nasmeja 

[Gordana .]

Да се самоцитирам:

 

Ма пусти, пропаганда. Хоће да нас деморалишу. Све зависи шта ко сматра богатством...нама потрошачка религија не треба.

[Crveni Baron]

  On 26. 4. 2014. at 20:06, RYLAH рече

 

 

 

 

 

         

 

Sledeci put necu da cicijasim ....

[Grizzly Adams]

  On 26. 4. 2014. at 20:07, Gordana . рече

Да се самоцитирам

 

Боље немој...

[Grizzly Adams]

  On 26. 4. 2014. at 20:07, Милосављевић рече

Probloem je sto ti ne raazumes kako ide proces.Kao po obicaju.

 

Ма где ће` му објасниш...

 

Привреду покреће производња, а не "паре". Да би се нешто куповало, мора прво да се произведе. Не могу "држава и синдикати" да се "договоре" па да све крене на боље. Богатство се не прави "договарањем" него радом.

[Gordana .]

  On 26. 4. 2014. at 20:09, Grizzly Adams рече

Боље немој...

 

 

И то што кажеш. Боље овако, ти мене па ја тебе. 

[GeniusAtWork]

  On 26. 4. 2014. at 19:52, 'Crveni Baron рече

Zato bi drzava trebala da zajedno sa sindikatima odredi platu radnika na nivou drzave.

 

 

Pretpostavljam da misliš na minimalnu zagarantovanu zaradu, il' kako se već zove.

 

Evo sa wiki, argumenti za i protiv toga.

 

Za:

 

Arguments in favor of minimum wage laws

Supporters of the minimum wage claim it has these effects:

• Increases the standard of living for the poorest and most vulnerable class in society and raises average.^%5B90%5D
• Motivates and encourages employees to work harder^%5B91%5D
• Stimulates consumption, by putting more money in the hands of low-income people who spend their entire paychecks. Hence increases circulation of money through the economy.^%5B90%5D
• Encourages efficiency and automation of industry.^%5B92%5D
• Removes low paying jobs, forcing workers to train for, and move to, higher paying jobs.^{%5B93%5D%5B94%5D}
• Increases technological development. Costly technology that increases business efficiency is more appealing as the price of labour increases.^%5B95%5D
• Increases the work ethic of those who earn very little, as employers demand more return from the higher cost of hiring these employees.^%5B90%5D
• Decreases the cost of government social welfare programs by increasing incomes for the lowest-paid.^%5B90%5D
• Encourages people to join the workforce rather than pursuing money through illegal means, e.g., selling illegal drugs^{%5B96%5D%5B97%5D}
• One way it can increase employment: When wages are very low, a worker often has to work very long hours to earn enough to live on. If wages are increased, then the worker can afford to work fewer hours. This frees up employment for another person.^{[citation needed]}
• Most of the lowest-wage jobs are in services such as cleaning, security and carework. It is difficult to outsource many of these direct service jobs to other areas or countries with lower-cost labor. Hence there is a weakness in the argument that higher wages would mean that jobs would be lost to lower-wage areas.^{[citation needed]}
• A minimum wage is arguably a simpler, more direct and less bureaucratic way to ensure the lowest paid have a decent income compared to methods such as tax credits.^{[citation needed][by whom?]}

 

Protiv:

 

Arguments against minimum wage laws  

 

Opponents of the minimum wage claim it has these effects:

• As a labor market analogue of political-economic protectionism, it excludes low cost competitors from labor markets and hampers firms in reducing wage costs during trade downturns. This generates various industrial-economic inefficiencies.^[98]
• Hurts small business more than large business.^[99]
• Reduces quantity demanded of workers, either through a reduction in the number of hours worked by individuals, or through a reduction in the number of jobs.^[100][101]
• May cause price inflation as businesses try to compensate by raising the prices of the goods being sold.^[102][103]
• Benefits some workers at the expense of the poorest and least productive.^[104]
• Can result in the exclusion of certain groups (ethnic, gender etc.) from the labor force.^[105]
• Small firms with limited payroll budgets cannot offer their most valuable employees fair and attractive wages above unskilled workers paid the artificially high minimum, and see a rising hurdle-cost of adding workers.^[99]
• Is less effective than other methods (e.g. the Earned Income Tax Credit) at reducing poverty, and is more damaging to businesses than those other methods.^[106]
• Discourages further education among the poor by enticing people to enter the job market.^[106]
• Discriminates against, through pricing out, less qualified workers (including newcomers to the labor market, e.g. young workers) by keeping them from accumulating work experience and qualifications, hence potentially graduating to higher wages later.^[3]
• Slows growth in the creation of low-skilled jobs ^[107]
• Results in jobs moving to other areas or countries which allow lower-cost labor.^{[citation needed]}
• Results in higher long-term unemployment.^[108]

 

[Ненад Р.]

  On 26. 4. 2014. at 20:07, Gordana . рече

Да се самоцитирам:

 

Ма пусти, пропаганда. Хоће да нас деморалишу. Све зависи шта ко сматра богатством...нама потрошачка религија не треба.

Новац је важан свима , али има нешто важније од новца .

[Зосима]

Институт у Вашингтону је направио ову анализу.,јел?

Има још један "институт" у истом граду,који нам је растурио земљу, економски , материјално,присвојио део земље,и одузимао невине животе,али то није главни разлог нашег сиромаштва,уствари,питање да ли су уопште то и ставили као разлог...

[Иван ♪♫]

  On 26. 4. 2014. at 20:08, Crveni Baron рече

         

 

Sledeci put necu da cicijasim ....

 

a ,,sisanje" zaokruzi na 200 

[Grizzly Adams]

  On 26. 4. 2014. at 20:13, GeniusAtWork рече

Arguments in favor of minimum wage laws

Supporters of the minimum wage claim it has these effects:

• Increases the standard of living for the poorest and most vulnerable class in society and raises average.^%5B90%5D
• Motivates and encourages employees to work harder^%5B91%5D
• Stimulates consumption, by putting more money in the hands of low-income people who spend their entire paychecks. Hence increases circulation of money through the economy.^%5B90%5D
• Encourages efficiency and automation of industry.^%5B92%5D
• Removes low paying jobs, forcing workers to train for, and move to, higher paying jobs.^{%5B93%5D%5B94%5D}
• Increases technological development. Costly technology that increases business efficiency is more appealing as the price of labour increases.^%5B95%5D
• Increases the work ethic of those who earn very little, as employers demand more return from the higher cost of hiring these employees.^%5B90%5D
• Decreases the cost of government social welfare programs by increasing incomes for the lowest-paid.^%5B90%5D
• Encourages people to join the workforce rather than pursuing money through illegal means, e.g., selling illegal drugs^{%5B96%5D%5B97%5D}
• One way it can increase employment: When wages are very low, a worker often has to work very long hours to earn enough to live on. If wages are increased, then the worker can afford to work fewer hours. This frees up employment for another person.^{[citation needed]}
• Most of the lowest-wage jobs are in services such as cleaning, security and carework. It is difficult to outsource many of these direct service jobs to other areas or countries with lower-cost labor. Hence there is a weakness in the argument that higher wages would mean that jobs would be lost to lower-wage areas.^{[citation needed]}
• A minimum wage is arguably a simpler, more direct and less bureaucratic way to ensure the lowest paid have a decent income compared to methods such as tax credits.^{[citation needed][by whom?]}

 

Колико видим ни један од ових није тачан.

[Crveni Baron]

  On 26. 4. 2014. at 20:16, Grizzly Adams рече

Колико видим ни један од ових није тачан.

 

 

pa reci mi ko mupuje robu u jednoj drzavi? Ko kupuje po supermarketima u SAD?

 

Ja cu ti odgovoriti. Stolari, elektricari, fabricki radnici, sekretarice ...Ako oni nemaju para , tj. kada ne bi imali para supermarket bi zatvorio ili polako propadao kao u Srbiji ...

[Млађони]

  On 26. 4. 2014. at 20:11, Grizzly Adams рече

Ма где ће` му објасниш...

 

Привреду покреће производња, а не "паре". Да би се нешто куповало, мора прво да се произведе. Не могу "држава и синдикати" да се "договоре" па да све крене на боље. Богатство се не прави "договарањем" него радом.

 

Zapravo (visak)zarada ako ocemo precizno, al to te ne uce na marksizmu. 

 

 

  On 26. 4. 2014. at 20:16, Grizzly Adams рече

Колико видим ни један од ових није тачан.

 

Da ne ispadne da se uvek slazem sa tobom, nije bas tacno, da nijedan nije tacan, minimalna plata je dobra tamo gde poslodavci imaju monopol, pa mogu da diktiraju uslove (i platu). To se desi nekad negde... 

 

  Цитат

Ja cu ti odgovoriti. Stolari, elektricari, fabricki radnici, sekretarice ...Ako oni nemaju para , tj. kada ne bi imali para supermarket bi zatvorio ili polako propadao kao u Srbiji ...

 

 

A ko kupuje usloge stolara, fabrickgo radnika, sekretarice? 

 

I to je roba za trgovinu. 

[Иван ♪♫]

  On 26. 4. 2014. at 20:18, Crveni Baron рече

pa reci mi ko mupuje robu u jednoj drzavi? Ko kupuje po supermarketima u SAD?

 

Ja cu ti odgovoriti. Stolari, elektricari, fabricki radnici, sekretarice ...Ako oni nemaju para , tj. kada ne bi imali para supermarket bi zatvorio ili polako propadao kao u Srbiji ...

 

pa onda jedino da štampamo pare...

i delimo na ravne časti...

na nekom šalteru...

(a inflacija te vrati na isto)