Isus Hristos je postojao

[grigorije22]

E sada cu da se bacim na copy paste

More Ancient Secular Writtings of Jesus

This is a continuation of the commentary written on 11/28/04, and also taken from the book, "A Ready Defense" by Josh McDowell and compiled by Bill Wilson. The object is to provide you with further proof of the existence of Jesus, outside of the Bible and not written by Christians, but written by secular writers.

Plinius Secundus, Pliny The Younger - Governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor (A.D. 112), Pliny was writing the emperor Trajan seeking counsel as to how to treat the Christians. He explained that he had been killing both men and women, boys and girls. There were so many being put to death that he wondered if he should continue killing anyone who was discovered to be a Christian, or if he should kill only certain ones. He explained that he had made the Christians bow down to the statues of Trajan. He goes on to say that he also "made them curse Christ, which a genuine Christian cannot be induced to do." In the same letter he says of the people who were being tried:

"They affirmed, however, that the whole of their guilt, or their error, was that they were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verse a hymn to Christ as to a God, and bound themselves to a solemn oath, not to do any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft, adultery, never to falsify their word, not to deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up (Epistles, X. 96).

Suetonius (A.D. 120) - A Roman historian, a court official under Hadrian, annalist of the Imperial House, Suetonius says: "As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus [another spelling of Christus], he expelled them from Rome" (Life of Claudius, 25. 4). He also writes: "Punishment by Nero was inflicted on the Christians, a class of men given to a new and mischievous superstition" (Lives of the Caesars, 26. 2)

Tertullian (Regarding Pilate and Tiberius) - Jurist-theologian of Carthage, in a defense of Christianity (A.D. 197) before the Roman authorities in Africa, mentions the exchange between Tiberius and Pontius Pilate: "Tiberius accordingly, in whose days the Christian name made its entry into the world, having himself received intelligence from the truth of Christ's divinity, brought the matter before the senate, with his own decision in favor of Christ. The senate, because it had not given the approval itself, rejected his proposal. Caesar held to his opinion, threatening wrath against all the accusers of the Christians (Apology, V.2).

Thallus, the Samaritan-born historian - One of the first Gentile writers who mentions Christ is Thallus, who wrote in A.D. 52. However, his writings have disappeared and we only know of them from fragments cited by other writers. One such writer is Julius Africanus, a Christian writer about A.D. 221. One very interesting passage relates to a comment from Thallus. Julius Africanus writes: "Thallus in the third book of his histories, explains away this darkness as an eclipse of the sun- unreasonably, as it seems to me" (unreasonably, of course, because a solar eclipse could not take place at the time of the full moon, and it was the season of the Paschal full moon that Christ died). Thus from this reference we see that the Gospel account of the darkness that fell upon the land during Christ's crucifixion was well-known and required a naturalistic explanation from those non-believers who witnessed it. 10/113

Phlegon, a first century historian - He is also mentioned by Julius Africanus, and quotes Phlegon that "during the time of Tiberius Caesar an eclipse of the sun occurred during the full moon". 60/n.p. Phlegon is also mentioned by Origen in Contra Celsum, Book 2, sections 14, 33, 59. "And about this darkness..." He says that "Phlegon mentioned the eclipse which took place during the crucifixion of the Lord Jesus Christ, and no other [eclipse], it is clear he did not know from his sources about any [similar] eclipse in previous times... and this is shown by the historical account itself of Tiberius Caesar."

And then there is the Letter of Mara Bar-Serapion - It is in the British Museum. A manuscript preserving the text of a letter written around A.D.73. This letter was sent by a Syrian named Mara Bar-Serapion to his son Serapion. He instances the deaths of Socrates, Pythagoras and Christ. "What advantage did the Athenians gain from putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as a judgment for their crime. What advantage did the men of Samos gain from burning Pythagoras? In a moment their land was covered with sand. What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise King? It was just after that their kingdom was abolished. God avenged these three wise men: the Athenians died of hunger; the Samians were overwhelmed by the sea; the Jews, ruined and driven from their land, live in complete dispersion. But Socrates did not die for good; he lived on in the teaching of Plato. Pythagoras did not die for good; he lived on in the statue of Hera. Nor did the wise king die for good; He lived on in the teaching which He had given. 10/114

All these historians and non-Christian people wrote about Christ and some of the unexplainable events that took place during His walk on earth. I don’t know how much more written proof one would need to be convinced the Gospels speak the truth.

[grigorije22]

HE TALMUD & JESUS CHRIST

From the Jewish Encyclopedia, we learned that the Talmud slanders our Savior, Jesus Christ.

"... the Jewish Encyclopœdia admits that Jewish legends concerning Jesus are found in the Talmud and Midrash and in " the life of Jesus ( Toledot Yeshu) that originated in the Middle Ages. It is the tendency of all these sources to belittlethe person of Jesus by ascribing to Him illegitimate birth, magic, and a shameful death. " 1.

Rev. I. B. Pranaitis revealed in The Talmud Unmasked that Jesus is also maligned as a false teacher:

"… He[Jesus] is referred to in the Talmud as Otho Isch- "That man," i.e. the one who is known to all. In the tract Abhodah Zarah, 6a, we read: "He is called a Christian who follows the false teachings of that man, who taught them to celebrate the feast on the first day of the Sabbath, that is, to worship on the first day after Sabbath…Talui, -"The one who was hanged"…" 2.

Jewish sources avoid the Greek name "Jesus", meaning 'savior', and abbreviate Jeschua to "Jeshu' which means "may his name be blotted out!"

"…name in Hebrew would be Jeschua Hanotsri--Jesus the Nazarene. He is called Notsri from the city of Nazareth… In the Talmud Christians are also called Notsrim. (Amongst other things). 'Since the word Jeschua means 'Savior,' the name Jesus rarely occurs in the Jewish books. It is almost always abbreviated to Jeschu… as if it were composed of the initial letters of the three words Immach SCHemo Vezikro-- (meaning)- -'May his name be blotted out.'" 4.

Hebrew Roots proponents claim that these teachings are a thing of the past. However, a review of various Jewish sources in use today discloses identical the same or similar teachings. The Talmud and Cabala teachings of the Toledot Yeshu-- (or Tolodoth Ieschu or Sepher Toldoth Jehoshua) are representative of teachings regarding Christ which may be shocking to Christians. A brief overview of these teachings cites the Talmud, (treatise Sabbath, folio 104, treatise Sanhedrim, folio 107, and Sota, folio 47) which presents this falsified account of Jesus:

"...the Toledot Yeshu relates with the most indecent details that Miriam, a hairdresser of Bethlehem,4. affianced to a young man named Jochanan, was seduced by a libertine, Joseph Panther or Pandira, and gave birth to a son whom she named Johosuah or Jeschu. According to the Talmudic authors of the Sota and the Sanhedrim, Jeschu was taken during his boyhood to Egypt, where he was initiated into the secrets doctrines of the priests, and on his return to Palestine gave himself up to the practice of magic. 5. The Toledot Yeshu, however, goes on to say that on reaching manhood, Jeschu learnt the secret of his illegitimacy, on account of which he was driven out of the Synagogue and took refuge for a time in Galilee."

"Now, there was in the Temple a stone on which was engraved the Tetragrammaton [YHWH] or Schem Hamphorasch, that is to say, the Ineffable Name of God; this stone had been found by King David when the foundations of the Temple were being prepared and was deposited by him in the Holy of Holies. Jeschu, knowing this, came from Galilee and, penetrating into the Holy of Holies, read the Ineffable name, which he transcribed on to a piece of whom parchment and concealed in an incision under his skin. By this means he was able to work miracles and to persuade the people that he was the son of God foretold by Isaiah. With the aid of Judas, the Sages of the Synagogue, succeeding in capturing Jeschu, who was then lead before the Great and Little Sanhedrim, by whom he was condemned to be stoned to death and finally hanged." Such is the story of Christ according to the Jewish Kabbalists ..." 5.

This false witness to the person of Jesus in the Talmud is also confirmed by Rev. I. B. Pranaitis in his online report, The Talmud Unmasked: The Secret Rabbinical Teachings Concerning Christians, and other sources" 6.

Another Jesus

In his article, "Some Disturbing Aspects of the So-called 'Hebrew Roots' Movement and Their Implications" Andrew Gould presents the Hebrew Roots' doubtful view concerning the validity of the Gospel account of Jesus.

"…It has been widely accepted in "Hebrew Roots" circles that Jesus spoke Hebrew and that the Gospels were originally written in Hebrew. Most "Hebrew Roots" ministries have been influenced in this notion by the output of a body called the Jerusalem School Of Synoptic Research, [JSSR] and most especially due to the widespread influence of the book "Understanding The Difficult Words Of Jesus" published by David Bivin (Director of the JSSR) and his partner Roy Blizzard. in 1984 and reprinted in 1994 and 1995…" 7.

According to the JSSR, there is a more authentic Life of Jesus than the gospel accounts:

"… There was an original Hebrew 'Life of Jesus', from parts of which our canonical Greek Gospel Texts are mere compilations and translations. The individual words of the Greek texts that we have are standard Greek equivalents used to translate Hebrew documents into Greek, therefore we can retranslate back into Hebrew to discover what Jesus really said. Failure to appreciate the Hebraic origins of the Gospels has led to mistranslation, misinterpretation, spiritually damaging error and doctrinal confusion." 8.

It has been established that the original manuscripts for the New Testament were composed in Greek. The Toledot Yeshu is a Hebrew version of the life of Jesus Christ for Jews who rejected him as God come in the flesh. It is also purveyed in Jewish sources that Jesus was not viewed as divine by his disciples, but was viewed as the human Messiah. This subject will be pursued in the next section on Jewish Thought.

Sir James Frazer, author of The Golden Bough, states that to cast doubt on the historical reality of Jesus, would be hardly less absurd than it would be to doubt Mohammed, and so on. Other historians reiterate that the existence of Christ is an historic fact. However, Rene' Guenon, "who writes with inside knowledge" of Theosophy in Le Theosophisme (1921), cites a reference to the occultic Le Lotus of 1887 which states that Jesus Christ of the New Testament never existed, but the Jesus of the Talmud did exist:

"... Madam Blavatsky's writings, on the person of Christ, ... 'For me, Jesus Christ, that is to say the Man-God of the Christians, copy of the Avatars of all countries, of the Hindu Chrishna as of the Egyptian Horus, was never a historical personage.' Hence the story of His life was merely an allegory founded on the existence of the 'a personage named Jehoshua born at Lud.' But elsewhere she asserted that Jesus may have lived during the Christian era or a century earlier 'as the Sepher Toldoth Jehoshua indicates.'

"And Madame Blavatsky went on to say of the savants who deny the historical value of this legend, that they- 'either lie or talk nonsense. It is our Masters who affirm it. If the history of Jehoshua or Jesus Ben Pandera is false, then the whole of the Talmud, the whole of the Jewish canon law, is false. It was the disciple of Jehoshua ben Parachai, the fifth President of the Sanhedrin since Ezra, who re-wrote the Bible .... This story is much truer than that of the New Testament, of which history does not say a word." 9.

Could it be that Jehoshua Ben Pandera of the Talmud, who was initiated into the 'secret doctrine' and gave himself over to the practice of magic, is the Jehoshua or Yeshua promoted by the Hebrew Roots teachers? The following is a portion of an e-mail exchange dated 1/28/99 between the writer and Uri Marcus of Nehemiah Trustee Covenant Fund:

Vicky Dillen: The name Jesus Christ is known world wide and synonymous with Christianity. That is a historical fact.

Uri Marcus: Today, yes. 200+ years ago it was synonymous with nothing. How naive you are of history...

Vicky Dillen: The Jewish people reject that Jesus Christ was divine and believe that He was not God come in the flesh. I believe on the other hand that He is all of that. Where do you stand Uri? In the Jewish belief or in what Christ himself said and what is taught in the New Testament?

Uri Marcus: I believe in the Jewish belief. But your definition is somewhat lacking. Doesn't look like you would understand it, since its already been explained, and it just goes right over your head.

From the La Science des Esprits, by the 19th century occultist, Eliphas Levi, we learned that the Cabalistic Toledot Yeshu and similar Talmudic teachings were purposely hidden from Christians.

"…the Toledot Yeshu, or the Sepher Toldos Jeschu, described here as originating in the Middle Ages…belongs in a much earlier period. Eliphas Levi asserts that 'the Sepher Toldos, to which the Jews attribute a great antiquity and which they hid from the Christians with such precautions that this book was for a long while unfindable, is quoted for the first time by Raymond Martin of the Order of the Preaching Brothers… This book was evidently written by a Rabbi initiated into the mysteries of the Cabala 1.'" 10.

In 1242, the Talmud was put on trial and ordered to be burned, by King Louis IX, because of its vicious slanders against Jesus Christ and Christians. It was stated that The Talmud encouraged the robbery and deception of Christians as a virtue; that it was permitted to break a promise, and so on.

The stories contained in Toledot Yeshu and similar teachings were well-known in Jewish circles, but did not come to the knowledge of Gentiles or Christians until Raymond Martin translated the Toledot Yeshu into Latin. Later, Martin Luther summarized it in German under the name Schem Hamphorasch; Luther's expose is available in French in Gustave Brunet's, Evangiles Apocryphes. 11.

According to Geschichte der Juden, by Jewish historian Heinrich Graetz, the image presented of Jesus Christ is simply as an initiate of Essenism; in other words, Jesus was just performing the miracles that any adept in the mystery religions could do.

"…Thus the Jewish historian Graetz declares that Jesus simply appropriated to himself the essential features of Essenism, and that primitive Christianity was "nothing but an offshoot of Essenism"2" 12a.

Nesta Webster wrote the Talmud characterizes Jesus Christ as a magician for an esoteric sect, such as the Essenes:

". . . So after representing Christ as a magician in the Toledot Yeshu and the Talmud, Jewish tradition seeks to explain His miraculous works as those of a mere healer--an idea that we shall find descending right through the secret societies to this day… if the miracles of Christ were simply due to a knowledge of natural laws and His doctrines were the outcome of a sect, the whole theory of His divine power and mission falls to the ground…" 12.

When the Jewish teachings regarding Jesus Christ were discovered in the early 1600's, a cover-up ensued. In 1631, a Jewish synod in Poland ordered the offending passages to be expunged, and that these teaching were to be passed on orally to young Jews by Rabbis. This is documented by P.L.B Drach:

"Drach, op.cit. I.168, 169. The text of this encyclical is given in Hebrew and also in translation, thus: " This is why we enjoin you, under the pain of excommunication major, to print nothing in future editions, whether of Mischna or of the Gemara, which relates whether for good or evil to the acts of Jesus the Nazarene, and to substitute instead a circle like this O, which will warn the Rabbis and schoolmasters to teach the young these passages only viva voce. By means of this precaution the savants amongst the Nazarenes will have no further pretext to attack us on this subject. Cf, Abbe'Chiarini, Le Talmud de Babylone, p. 45 (1831)." 13.

The offending passages are said to have been reinserted since then, although the such passages may not necessarily be in English translations or newer editions. 14.

These, then, are the teachings and thought within the Talmud regarding our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Some might say that the views presented from the past regarding Jesus Christ do not apply today, or have no effect on our studying Jewish tradition, teachings or thought within the Hebrew Roots movement. Or that the above slander of Our Lord is no longer taught. If so, then what current Jewish thought regarding the Messiah, salvation, sin, the Son of God, and the divinity of Christ? Do Jews define these terms as Christians do?

In his volume, The Talmud, Joseph Barclay confirms that the writings of Drach, a Talmudist turned Catholic whose writings were never refuted by Jews, called Jesus was a sorcerer:

" … Abominable calumnies on Christ and Christianity occur not only in the Cabala but in the earlier editions of the Talmud. In these, says Barclay - 'Our Lord and savior is 'that one', 'such an one', 'a fool', 'the leper', 'the deceiver of Israel', etc. Efforts are made to prove that He is the son of Joseph Pandira before His marriage with Mary. His miracles are attributed to sorcery the secret of which He brought in a slit in His flesh out of Egypt. He is said had been first stoned and then hanged on the eve of the Passover. His disciples are called heretics and opprobious names. They are accused of immoral practices, and the New Testament is called a sinful book. The references to these subjects manifest the most bitter aversion and hatred." 15.

Considering the diversity of thought inside Judaism as found in four different groupings - Orthodoxy, Conservative, Reform, and Reconstructionist Judaism - we cannot claim that the respective ideas of each group agree on all points. However, there are some underlying beliefs that appear to remain constant and accepted by most Jews regarding Christ, the Messiah, salvation, sin, and so on.

The Jewish Messiah

Dr. Lawrence J. Epstein, considered a Conservative Jew, explains The Differences between Judaism and Christianity in his book by that name. In a chapter, "The Jewish View of Jesus," Dr. Epstein gives Jesus credit for being a good teacher, but not God:

"To Christians, the central tenet of their religion is the belief that Jesus is the Son of God, part of the trinity, the savior of souls who is the messiah. He is God's revelation through flesh. Jesus was, in Christian terms, God incarnate, God in the flesh who came to Earth to absorb the sins of humans and therefore free from sin those who accepted his divinity. To Jews, whatever wonderful teacher and storyteller Jesus may have been, he was just a human, not the son of God (except in the metaphorical sense in which all humans are children of God). In the Jewish view, Jesus cannot save souls; only God can. Jesus did not, in the Jewish view, rise from the dead." 16.

The "Jews for Judaism" web site describes Jesus as a false prophet predicted in the Old Testament.

"…Jesus the Nazarene, who imagined that he would be messiah and was killed, is alluded to in the book of Daniel, as it is said, `And the sons of the transgressors among thy people will rise, in order to establish a vision, and will stumble' (Dan. 11:14). Can there be a greater stumbling then this? All the prophets said that messiah will be a redeemer and a savior to the Israelites, will bring together their outcasts, and will strengthen their obedience to the Divine precepts, but he (Jesus) caused destruction by the sword to Israel, the dispersion of those left, and their humiliation. He changed the law, and misled many people to worship a being beside G-D…." 17.

Rabbi Hyam Maccoby, in Revolution in Judaea, written in 1973 and still proclaimed accurate today, defines the Jewish view of Messiah as an anointed one, and angel or king, but not divine:

"The title "Messiah' (Greek-Christos) was not a divine title among the Jews. It simply means ' anointed'. It was given to two Jewish officials, King and the High Priest… every Jewish king of the house of David was known as Messiah, or Christ…" 18.

"The 'Son of Man', was not a Messiah. He was an angel identified with the Guardian Angel of Israel, with Metatron, with the angel who guided the Children of Israel in the wilderness…" 19.

"…There is hardly any reference in the Prophetic writings of the Old Testament to the Messiah as a person. There is no splendid shining figure judging mankind, sitting at the right-hand of God and coming very near to eclipsing God Himself by His glory." 20.

"Messiah…in Jewish eyes, belonged to royalty, not divinity. Even the title 'Son of God" was to Jews (but not to the Gnostics) a human title applied at various times in the Hebrew Scriptures to Kings such as King David…"Son of Man" also was not a divine title…far better known as a mode of address to a prophet…to mean simply 'human being'." 21.

The Jews for Judaism web site explains the historical "Jewish Belief in Messiah," from the Mishna (Torah) by Maimonides, as one who would restore the Kingdom of David:

"... In his monumental work Mishneh Torah, Maimonides (1135-1204) spelled out the fundamental Jewish concept of the messiah as it was handed down to us, generation after generation, from the time of the prophets…"

"…from the Mishneh Torah, Hilchot Melachim XI - XII. The King Messiah will in some future time come, restore the kingdom of David to its former power, build the Temple, bring together the scattered of Israel, and all the ancient laws will again be in force. Sacrifices will be offered, and years of release and Jubilees will be kept as prescribed in the Torah. Whoever does not believe in him, or does not hope for his coming, shows a lack of faith not only in the prophets, but also in the Torah…" 22.

Some Jews have believed there would be many Messiahs. At the time of Christ, Hyam Maccoby states:

"… Any leader who succeeded in driving out the Romans and setting up an independent Jewish state would have little difficulty in being recognized as the Messiah. His very success would prove his claim. Thus Bar Kochba was recognized as the Messiah by Rabbi Akiva even though there was no evidence of his descent from David." 23.

Demonstrating the spiritual blindness of the Jews, The Jewish Guardian of 1924 interpreted the great messianic prophecy, Isaiah 53, as the sufferings of Israel, rather than Jesus Christ:

"… an article in the Jewish Press,… according to the teaching of the 'Liberal Jewish Synagogue,' the beautiful passages in the fifty-third chapter of Isaiah concerning 'the Man of Sorrows acquainted with grief,' usually supposed by Christians to relate to the promised Messiah, are interpreted to modern Jewish youth as relating to Israel and signifying that Israel's 'sufferings were caused by the sins of other nations,' who thus 'escaped the suffering they deserved.' Consequently, 'Israel was offered for the sake of the whole world.'2." 24.

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A Jewish Theocracy

According to Dr. Lawrence J. Epstein, current Jewish teaching precludes Jesus as the Messiah because it is unanimously believed that the Messiah will bring peace:

"Jesus is not seen as the messiah. In the Jewish view, the messiah is a human being who will usher in an era of peace. We can tell the messiah by looking at the world and seeing if it is at peace. From the Jewish view, this clearly did not happen when Jesus was on Earth or anytime after his death." 25.

Hyam Maccoby believed Jesus to be a rebel, but misrepresented by the gospel accounts out of fear of reprisals by Rome:

"…Jesus was executed as a rebel, against Rome, not as a blasphemer against the Jewish religion, and that the Gospel's misrepresentations on this point are politically motivated--I regard as strongly established…" 26.

Hyam Maccoby is considered a classical scholar and Rabbi of Reform Judaism, and has in recent years been director of the library at the Leo Baeck College of Judaistics in London. His books appear to present accepted ideas regarding Christ, Christianity and the New Testament and the Jewish thought. To clarify Jewish views and dispel Christian misconceptions of the Messiah, Maccoby redefined Jesus' mission:

"…The phrase 'the kingdom of God'…meant the reign of God (not His heavenly territory) and referred to a projected return to a Jewish system of theocracy…" 27.

"….He [Jesus] had campaigned among 'the lost sheep of Israel', calling them to repentance, because he felt that the coming of God's Kingdom was being held back by Israel's sin's. Pharisee writings often stress that God's promises to Israel are not automatically fulfilled; they depend on Israel's worthiness and co-operation ... " 28.

"…Jesus' mission as a prophet was exclusively directed towards the Jews, not towards the Gentiles. The idea that Jesus rejected the Jews and transferred the Old Testament 'promises' to the Gentiles was a later invention of the Gentile-Christian Church…" 29.

"… Some believed that the Messiah would inaugurate a new era for the whole world; that the nations of the world would acknowledge the One God and his Temple in Jerusalem; that the Jews would be revered as the chosen priests of the One God; and that an era of world peace would begin when, in the words of Isaiah's wonderful internationalist vision, the swords would be beaten into plowshares and the wolf would lie down with lamb. Some, however, did not believe that the coming of the Messiah would necessarily bring about an era of international peace. There might be many Messiahs - many more sorrows and comfortings, defeats and victories - for the Jewish people before that happened. After all, there had been Messiahs before and none had brought everlasting peace. The vision of Isaiah was acknowledged by every Pharisee, as the word of God but it was not necessarily attached to the expectation of the coming Messiah who would defeat the Romans." 30.

In The Traditions of the Jews, from the Talmud (treatises Baba Bathra folio 74b, Pesachim folio 32, Bekhoroth folio 57 and Massektoth Ta'anith folio 31), J.P Stehaln presents a glorious scenario of the Messianic era - without Jesus Christ as the Messiah:

"… when the Messianic era arrives. After the return of the Jews from all nations and parts of the world… the Messiah, we are told in the Talmud, will entertain them at a gorgeous banquet, where they will be seated at tables and regaled with wine from Adam's wine-cellar. The first course is to consist of a roasted ox named Behemoth, so immense that every day it eats up the grass upon a thousand hills; the second of a monstrous fish Leviathan; the third of a female Leviathan boiled and pickled; the fourth of a gigantic roast fowl known as Barjuchne, of which the egg alone was so enormous that when it fell out of the nest it crushed three hundred tall cedars and the white overflowed threescore villages. This course is to be followed up by "the most splendid and pompous Dessert," that can be procured, including fruit from the Tree of Life and "the Pomegranates of Eden which are preserved for the Just."

"At the end of the banquet "God will entertain the company at a ball"; He Himself will sit in the midst of them, and everyone will point Him out with his finger, saying: "Behold, this is our God: we have waited for Him, we will be glad and rejoice in His salvation." 31.

On Sin and Salvation

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." Rom. 3:23

From "The Differences between Judaism and Christianity, we can see the great partition between Jewish and Christian thought on sin.

"Judaism does not accept the notion of original sin, the idea that people are bad from birth and cannot remove sin by themselves but need an act of grace provided by the sacrificial death of Jesus as atonement for all of humanity's sins. For Christians, there are no other forms of salvation other than through Jesus." 32.

Dr. Epstein goes on to explain Jewish views on sin and atonement: the sinner must seek forgiveness from God through human works.

"He [Jesus] also did not absorb the sins of people. For Jews, sins are removed not by Jesus' atonement but by seeking forgiveness. Jews seek forgiveness from God for sins against God and from other people (not just God) for sins against those people. Seeking forgiveness requires a sincere sense of repenting but also seeking directly to redress the wrong done to someone. Sins are partially removed through prayer which replaced animal sacrifice as a way of relieving sins. They are also removed by correcting errors against others. " 33.

Hyam Maccoby explains the Jews' complete denial that salvation is a spiritual issue, requiring a sacrifice for sin:

"... There was no concept of a Suffering Messiah who would die on the cross to purge mankind of sin…. To the Jews salvation was a physical not a purely spiritual concept. The Messianic age, to the Jews, was to be the culmination of human history on earth. 34.

Maccoby also believes that it is possible for man to approach God in a sinless condition:

"…The belief in the efficacy of prayer was very strong among the Pharisees…. Only the most concerted beam of concentration, directed from Gethsemane to God, could obliterate the traces of the sins of Israel, and bring about the hour of redemption. Jesus alone was not sufficient…This explains why Jesus narrowed down his company to the Twelve on that night. He wanted the company of those on whom he could most rely, for the power of sinless prayer would be far more important than the strength of mere number." 35.

On heaven and Hell

The writings of Dr. Epstein present the Jews' hyper-spiritualized and non-threatening views of afterlife:

"...Traditionalists gave the name Gehenna to the place where souls were punished. Many Jewish thinkers noted that since, essentially, God is filled with mercy and love, punishment is not to be considered to be eternal. There are, similarly, many varying conceptions of paradise, such as that paradise is the place where we finally understand the true concept of God. It is also possible that there is no separate heaven and Hell, only lesser or greater distance from God after death. In addition, punishment might be self-determined on the basis of suffering in kind the suffering the person brought about. That is, Judaism doesn't have a clear sense of heaven and Hell, with different places in Hell for different punishments. Rather, the idea is that God uses the afterlife to provide ultimate justice and for the wicked to seek some sort of final redemption." 36.

We note that Scripture states:

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Rom. 6:20-23

And as it is appointed unto man once to die, but after this the judgment. Hebrews 9:27

Oneness Doctrine

Dr. Epstein expounds the Jewish doctrine of "oneness" as opposed to the Christian doctrine of the "Trinity", or three Persons in the Godhead:

"Judaism insists on a notion of monotheism, the idea that there is one God. As Judaism understands this idea, God cannot be made up of parts, even if those parts are mysteriously united. The Christian notion of trinitarianism is that God is made up of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Such a view, even if called monotheistic because the three parts are, by divine mystery, only one God, is incompatible with the Jewish view that such a division is not possible. The Jewish revolutionary idea is that God is one. This idea allows for God's unity and uniqueness as a creative force. Thus, for Jews, God is the creator of all that we like and all that we don't. There is no evil force with an ability to create equal to God's. Judaism sees Christianity's trinitarianism as a weakening of the idea of God's oneness." 37.

A teacher of the Hebrew Roots of Christianity, Peter Michas of Messengers of Messiah, asserted this very belief in the "oneness" doctrine": Yet the minute I saw the Hebrew thinking of the oneness and the rest of it, it was never unclear to me again." 38.

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In his book, The Rod of an Almond Tree in God's Master Plan, Peter. Michas expands upon his acceptance of the Hebrew viewpoint of God and the Trinity.

"The unity of Yeshua HaMashiach with God the Father and the Holy Spirit has never been clearly understood from the doctrine of the Trinity..." 39.

"To understand the true relationship of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, it is essential to preserve the concept of oneness..." 40.

"The aspect of the Father may be simply understood as the Will of God. The aspect of the Son may be understood as the Word of God. The aspect of the Spirit of the Holy One may be understood as the Power of God..." 41.

"To say God is three 'persons' opens the door to misunderstanding God. God is Spirit and cannot be reduced to the concept of a person..." 42.

"The Spirit of the Holy One is the very essence of the power of God the Father and not some separate entity." 43.

Note that Peter Michas refers to the Godhead as three "aspects" and the Holy Spirit as an "essence" rather than a Person.

The only place one finds a trinitarian concept of the godhead in Judaism is in the Kabbalah, the book of Jewish occultism

"M. Vulliaud quotes Isaac Meyer's assertion that, "the triad, of the ancient Cabala is Kether, the Father; Binah, the Holy Spirit or the Mother; and Hochmah, the Word or the Son." But in order to avoid the sequence of the Christian Trinity this arrangement has been altered in the modern Cabala of Luria and Moses of Cordovero, etc." 44.

The Jewish Encyclopœdia makes clear that the Cabalistic trinity is not to be confused with Christianity.

"... The Jewish Encyclopœdia…goes on to say that what appears to be Christian in the Cabala is only esoteric doctrine." 45.

Goyim

Jewish people characterise Christians in terms very different from what they would expect.

Avi ben Mordechai states that Jews are specifically are prostelyze:

"… He said to go out into all the world (as you go) and make talmidim of all the goyim. …we are His talmidim or students of His Oral Traditions which is the proper definition of the term 'Gospel.' We are to follow His Mishnah and Gemara, i.e., His Talmud, and take it to the goyim, teaching them to observe all that He commanded us!…" 46.

Isn't this precisely the ministry of Peter Michas, Jacob Prasch and other Hebraic Roots teachers: taking the Talmud to the goyim. The term "goyim" which Mr. Mordechai uses needs to be understood in its historical context. Citing information from the Kabbalistic book, the Zohar, a part of the Jewish mysticism which Avi ben Mordechai teaches, we note:

"… the Chosen People…forms the basis of all Talmudic and Cabalistic writings. …According to the Zohar, 'All Israelites will have a part in the future world,' and on arrival there will not be handed over like the goyim (or non-Jewish races) to the hands of the angel Douma and sent down to Hell.5. Indeed the goyim are even denied human attributes." 47.

According to The Emek ha Melek, the work of the Cabalist Naphtali, a disciple of Luria, the goyim are of the devil:

"…Thus the Zohar again explains that the words of the Scripture 'Jehovah Elohim made man', mean that He made Israel. 6. The seventeenth-century Rabbinical treatise Emek ha Melek observes: 'Our Rabbis of blessed memory have said: 'Ye Jews are men because of the soul ye have from the Supreme Man (i.e, God). But the nations of the world are not styled men because they have not, from the Holy and Supreme Man, the Neschama (or glorious soul) but they have the Nephesch (soul) from Adam Belial, that is the malicious and unnecessary man, called Sammael, the Supreme Devil.'" 48.

Another way of saying or spelling goyim, is "Goi". Rev. I. B. Pranaitis, in his online work, The Talmud Unmasked, notes that this term has been removed from recent editions:

"Goi- Race, or people. The Jews also call a man a Goi - a gentile; they call a gentile woman a Goiah. ... It is mostly applied to non-Jews, or idolators. In Jewish books which treat of Idolatry, worshippers of idols are often called by this single word Goi. For this reason, in more recent editions of the Talmud the use of the word Goi is purposely avoided and other words for non-Jews are substituted.

It is well known that in the Jewish language, the Jews call Christians among whom they live, Goim. Nor do the Jews deny this.

Sometimes in their popular magazines they say that this word means nothing harmful or evil. But the contrary can be seen in their books written in the Hebrew language. For instance, in Choschen Hammischpat (34, 22), the name Goi is used in a depraved sense:

"Traitors and Epicureans and Apostates are worse than Goim"49.

Indeed the whole idea of gentiles or "goyim" studying the Jewish oral law as suggested by Jacob Prasch, Peter Michas, Avi ben Mordechai and others, is in direct disobedience to the proclamations in the Talmud. Even a Christian who is found studying the Law of Israel merits death. Sanhedrin (59a) states:

"Rabbi Jochanan says: A Goi who pries into the Law is guilty to death. "Even a Christian who is found studying the Law of Israel merits death."

It is also perplexing that the leaders of the Hebrew Roots movement would direct our studies to the teachings of the sages in the Talmud, Mishna and Midrash, when these same sages have been teaching the Jewish people to destroy the writings of the Christians including the New Testament.

"Shabbath 116a. Jews must destroy the books of the Christians, i.e. the New Testament."

Christian Jews?

The organization, Jews for Judaism, "the Worlds foremost countermissionary organization", intimates that the Jews are not fooled by Christians who assume a Jewish image to proselytize them. Even Jews recognize the great divide between Judaism and Christianity.

"… Though Hebrew Christianity claims to be a form of Judaism, it is not… It deceptively uses the sacred symbols of Jewish observance (i.e. community Passover seders, menorahs, messianic services, etc.) as a cover to convert Jews to Christianity, a belief system antithetical to Judaism… Hebrew Christianity is not a form of Judaism and its members, even if they are of Jewish birth, cannot be considered members of the Jewish community. Hebrew Christians are in radical conflict with the communal interests and the destiny of the Jewish people. They have crossed an unbreachable chasm by accepting another religion. …"

"… practice of any other religious tradition has been understood to lead to the loss of rights to full participation in the Jewish community…Our history has clearly shown that when confronted with a group of Jews which has adopted another faith and seeks to convert others, we must stand firm in asserting that this other faith is not Judaism and that its adherents have forfeited their privileges as Jews. Jewish tradition believes that the opportunity to return to participation in the Jewish community is always open. When this occurs, all privileges are restored." 50.

This repudiation of those who apostatize from Judaism is stronger in the Talmud teachings of the Oral Law of the sages. Hilkhoth Akum (X, 2) states that defectors must be killed.

"These things [supra] are intended for idolaters. But Israelites also, who lapse from their religion and become epicureans, are to be killed, and we must persecute them to the end. For they afflict Israel and turn the people from God." 51.

Christians or converted Jews who affect a Jewish demeanor or compromise Christian doctrine to appeal to the Jewish mindset are surrendering the priceless pearl of Jesus Christ who alone leads to salvation. The ecumenical approach does not lead Jews to Jesus Christ, but patronizes their religion of dead works, and results in the Christian's acceptance of religion on Jewish terms.

"Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul, say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you." Gal. 5:1-8

No Common Ground

Contemporary Jewish thought reflects the same aversion to Jesus Christ as historical Judaism:

"Jews vary about what they think of Jesus as a man. Some respect him as an ethical teacher who accepted Jewish law, as someone who didn't even see himself as the messiah, who didn't want to start a new religion at all. Rather, Jesus is seen by these Jews as someone who challenged the religious authorities of his day for their practices. In this view, he meant to improve Judaism according to his own understanding not to break with it." 52.

Hyam Maccoby sums up Jewish thought regarding Jesus as this:

"With the composition of the Gospels, then, a fictitious Jesus was created, suitable for the needs of the Hellenistic Gentile-Christian Church. The Prophet King, human and Jewish, who was revered but not worshiped by the Jewish-Christian Church was turned into a Divine Sacrifice. Jesus, who was, in reality, an apocalyptic Pharisee rabbi who claimed the titles of Prophet and King, was turned into a pagan god." 53.

Dr. Epstein concludes:

"Whatever the Jewish response is, one point is crucial. No one who is Jewish, no born Jew and no one who converts to Judaism, can believe in Jesus as the literal son of God or as the messiah. For the Jewish people, there is no God but God." 54.

We could elaborate further on the Jewish thought regarding the New Testament, the writings of Paul, who was viewed as a heretic, and the disciples. We could expand the idea that many Jews believe that James and Peter were Pharisaic Rabbis, who believed in the Jewish idea of the Messiah-- that Jesus was not divine.

We could expand upon the Jewish theory that James, believed to have been the head of the Nazarene movement, was not in any way in conflict with the teachings of the Pharisees, but was devout in promoting them. We could expand on the Jewish idea that Paul, not Jesus, is viewed as the originator of Christianity, of the Jewish notion that Jesus' divinity derived from Greek paganism. We could, but one only has to go to Jewish websites and see that their beliefs are diametrically opposed to Christianity. Sadly, we would also see the denial of the virgin birth and condemnation of all things Christian. The Jews are devout in their convictions.

If Jewish sources reject the very concept of a divine Messiah, how are Christians to learn the 'true meaning' of Scripture from them, without repudiating the doctrines of Jesus Christ, salvation, sin and the entire New Testament? It is impossible. While the Hebrew or messianic movements urge us to embrace "our foundational Hebrew roots", Scripture tells us that our foundation is none other than Jesus Christ.

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1. Rimski spisi o Isusu

U tri vijeka od Isusove smrti čitavo je Rimsko carstvo prihvatilo kršćanstvo, vjeru koja je nastala u maloj provinciji i omraženom narodu. Ipak su Rimljani upravo jednog Jevreja priznali za Božjeg Sina. Postoje brojni rimski zapisi o Isusu, ali mi ćemo se ograničiti samo na one najranije, dok je kršćanstvo bilo zabranjena i progonjena vjera.

Najpoznatiji istoričar starog Rima Kornelije Tacit (55-117. n. Kr.) u svojem djelu ''Anali'' navodi kako je Neron lažno optužio kršćane za požar Rima, te ih je tada dao ubijati, vješati na križeve i spaljivati kao baklje u svojim vrtovima. U 15. knjizi ''Anala'' Tacit piše:

''Ali nikakvo ljudsko sredstvo, ni careva darežljivost, ni pomirni obredi, ne zatomiše javno govorkanje, nego se držalo da je požar naređen. Da stane dakle nakraj tim glasovima, podmetne Neron krivce i stavi na najrafiniranije muke one koji su bili omraženi sa svojih gadosti, a koje prosti narod nazivaše kršćanima. Ime im to dolazi od Krista, koji, za Tiberijeva vladanja, bude pogubljen po naredbi prokuratora Poncija Pilata. Potisnuto za čas, nanovo provali to pogubno praznovjerje, ne samo u Judeji, gdje je imalo svoj izvor, već i u samom Rimu, gdje se sa svih strana stječe i veliča sve što je sramotno i užasno.''

Tacitov se izvještaj slaže s Novim zavjetom u kojem također stoji da su Isusovi učenici prvo širili svoje učenje u Judeji, a zatim uz velike otpore i progonstva po cijelom Rimskom Carstvu uključujući i grad Rim.

Iako svi ozbiljni istoričari prihvaćaju ovaj citat kao autentičan, pojedinci iz ateističkih krugova sumnjaju u autentičnost ovog ulomka zato što Tacit upotrebljava titulu Krist. Međutim, iz teksta je jasno da Tacit spominje naziv Krist kako bi objasnio odakle naziv kršćani, a ne kako bi se deklarirao vjernikom (kao što i mi Budu zovemo Budom što znači “prosvijetljen”, iako ga ne smatramo prosvijetljenim, a ne Sidarta Gautama kako mu je bilo ime). Da je taj odlomak autentičan, svjedoči već Tertulijan krajem 2. vijeka, kada Tacita, radi njegove neskrivene mržnje s kojom piše o kršćanima, naziva ''najrječitijim u lažima''. Suplicije Sever u svojim ''Kronikama'' kaže da Tacit u ''Historijama'' na mnogo mjesta spominje kršćanstvo opisujući požar jeruzalemskog hrama 70. godine. Tacitov je izvještaj važan jer ne ovisi ni o kršćanskim, ni o jevrejskim izvorima, već je povezan s poganskim izvoro i Rimskim arhivom koji nisu teološki obojeni.

Drugi rimski istoričar koji spominje Isusa i kršćane je Gaj Svetonije (65.-135. n. Kr.). U djelu ''De vita Caesarum'', napisanom oko 120. god., opisuje razdoblje od Cezara do Domicijana. Na dva mjesta spominje kršćane. Prvi ulomak izvještava o Neronovom progonstvu kršćana, koje, kao i Tacit, naziva ''ljudima novog i štetnog praznovjerja''. To dokazuje da je kršćana u Rimu bilo, već za vrijeme Nerona, što tvrdi i Novi zavjet. Na drugom mjestu piše o progonu Jevreja iz Rima za vrijeme Klaudija koji je vladao od 41. do 54. god.. Svetonije piše: ''On izagna Jevreje iz Rima koji podigoše veliku bunu zbog buntovnika Krista''. Svetonije Isusa naziva Chresto. Poznato je da su rimski pisci grčku riječ Hristos pisali i kao Christus, i kao Chrestus. U ranim izdanjima Tacitovih Anala nalazi izraz ''chrestiani''. Tertulijan također svjedoči da se kod prvih kršćanskih pisaca upotrebljavao izraz christiani i chrestiani.

Istoričar Orozije je 56. god. n. Kr. u svojoj ''Istoriji protiv pogana'' napisao da je istjerivanje Jevreja iz Rima bilo 9. godine vladanja cara Klaudija, a to je 49. god. n. Kr. Ovo se slaže sa novozavjetnim izvještajem prema kojem je Pavle 52. godine u Korintu susreo rimske kršćane jevrejskog porijekla Priscilu i Akvilu, koji su stigli iz Rima jer je car Klaudije naredio da svi Židovi moraju napustiti Rim (Dj 18,2). Prema Svetoniju razlog progona bili su neprestani jevrejski sukobi oko Krista, što se opet slaže s izvještajem iz Djela apostolskih, prema kojemu su se Jevreji svugdje borili protiv Pavla koji ja Isusa naviještao u jevrejskim sinagogama i među poganima. Kad je došao u Rim, Jevreji su mu rekli da o kršćanstvu čuju samo da mu se svugdje proturječi (Dj 28,22), te su mu jedni povjerovali, a drugi nisu htjeli vjerovati, pa su se prepirali među sobom odlazeći od Pavla. Svetonije naziva Krista buntovnikom, što pokazuje da mu je izvor bio carski arhiv u kojem je pisalo da je Krist kao buntovnik pogubljen s dvojicom drugih buntovnika. I Justin Mučenik u prvoj polovici 2. stoljeća navodi da u carskom arhivu postoji izvještaj o Isusovom pogubljenju.

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Treći rimski pisac koji spominje Isusa je Plinije Mlađi ili Plinije II (61.-114. god. n. Kr.). U svom djelu ''Epistulae'' (Pisma), Isusa spominje u desetoj knjizi, u pismu broj 96, napisanom 111. god. i upućenom caru Trajanu. U tom pismu pita cara kako da se postavi prema kršćanima u procesu što ga je trebao provoditi u Bitiniji, na temelju rimskog zakona o tajnim društvima. Slično kao Tacit i Svetonije, kršćane naziva ''zarazom'' i s prijezirom govori o njima, iako priznaje da su čestiti, pošteni, kreposni. Ta je mržnja prema kršćanima proizlazila iz toga što su oni prezirali druge bogove i nisu htjeli žrtvovati carskim kipovima, ali i iz toga što su raspetog čovjeka Isusa nazivali svojim Bogom. Tako Plinije piše:

''Nikada nisam prisustvovao ispitivanjima o kršćanskim prijestupima. Zbog toga ne znam kako i do kojeg stupnja ih trebam kažnjavati, te kako da o tome vodim zapisnik. Kada su preda me izvodili neke s optužbom da su kršćani, ja sam ih kao kršćane i kažnjavao. Pitao sam ih jesu li kršćani; one koji su priznavali pitao sam po drugi i treći put prijeteći im kaznama; uporne sam kažnjavao… Bilo je takvih bezumnika koje sam, budući da su rimski građani, odlučio poslati u Rim… One koji su bili okrivljeni da su kršćani, ili su bili kršćani, oslobađao sam kad su priznali bogove i čim su pred tvojim likom, koji sam naredio da bude donesen zajedno s kipovima bogova, prinijeli žrtve u tamjanu i vinu i uz to se rugali Kristu; pravi se kršćani ne mogu privoljeti ni na jedan od ovih postupaka. Drugi pak, koji su bili denuncirani, govorili su da su kršćani, a poslije se odricali toga, izjavljujući da su to nekad bili, ali da su potom otpali, jedni prije tri, drugi prije mnogo godina, neki prije dvadeset godina. Svi su oni častili toj lik i kipove bogova, rugali se Kristu. Tvrdili su da je sva njihova krivnja ili zabluda u tome što su se određenih dana sakupljali prije zore pjevajući i slaveći Krista kao Boga i obvezivali se zakletvom da neće činiti prijestupe, da će se uzdržavati od krađa, grabeži, preljuba, kršenja zadane riječi, itd. Zatim su se razilazili i ponovno se sakupljali radi uzimanja hrane, obične i nevine… Ovaj posao, po mome shvaćanju, zaslužuje da se o njemu razmisli, naročito zbog broja onih kojima prijeti opasnost. Mnogo ljudi svih uzrasta i svih zvanja i oba spola idu i odlazit će u propast. Zaraza se ovoga praznovjerja počinje širiti ne samo po gradovima, već i po selima i zaseocima.''

Plinijev tekst pokazuje da je još od 1. stoljeća postojala brojna grupa sljedbenika jevrejskog učitelja iz prve polovice 1. vijeka i da su ga ti sljedbenici obožavali kao Boga što je izazvalo zabrinutost Rima. Izraz ''carmenque Christo quasi Deo'' – pjevali su himne Kristu kao Bogu – potvrđuje da je Isus nije izmišljena figura, jer bi u tom slučaju bilo rečeno ''Pjevali su himne svome Bogu Kristu''. Međutim, Plinije zna da je Krist bio čovjek, istorijska osoba, kojega kršćani štuju kao Boga.

Četvrti rimski pisac koji piše o Isusu je filozof Celzo. U 2. vijeku kršćanstvo se toliko proširilo Rimskim Carstvom da ga mnogi poganski filozofi pokušavaju pobiti i ismijati. Celzo u svom djelu ''Logos alethes'' (Istinski nauk) pokušava Isusa ismijati i pobiti njegovo mesijanstvo i božanstvo, ali iako protivnik kršćanstva, ne spori Isusovu istoričnost.

Celzo piše da je Isus rođen od majke Marije, da je živio siromašno, da je dopustio da bude uhvaćen, odveden pred sud, ponižavan, ismijan, bičevan od strane vojnika i na kraju osuđen na sramotnu smrt na križu (krstu). Sve se to slaže sa novozavjetnim izvještajem. I iako je Celzo protivnik Isusa i kršćanstva u bitnim se elementima slaže s Isusovim životom opisanim u evanđeljima.

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2. Ostali svjetovni spisi

Sirijac Mara bar Serapion 73. godine piše pismo svome sinu Serapionu u kojem ga ohrabruje i potiče da slijedi mudrost, jer progonitelje mudrih ljudi prije ili kasnije snađe nesreća. Kao primjer navodi Atenjane koje je zbog smrti Sokrata stigla glad i kuga, stanovnike otoka Semosa, koji su spalili Pitagoru, pa ih je poplavilo more, te Židove koji su ubili svoga mudrog Kralja Krista, pa su zato uništeni i istjerani iz vlastite zemlje. Ali, Sokrat je nastavio živjeti u Platonovim učenjima, Pitagora u Herinu kipu, a mudri Kralj u učenju koje je predao.

Lucijan iz Samosate, satiričar iz 2. vijeka, u svom djelu ''De morte Palegrini'' o Isusu kaže:

''Raspet je u Palestini, jer je uveo novi kult u svijet. Još više, njihov prvi zakonodavac uvjerio ih je da su bili braća jedni drugima, nakon čega su pogriješili jednom zauvijek, zanijekavši grčke bogove i slaveći tog raspetog sofista i živeći prema njegovu zakonu.''

Julije Afrikanus, u svome djelu iz 221. Godine, spominje pisanje istoričara Talusa, ismijavajući njegov opis tame za Isusova raspeća. I evanđelja svjedoče o velikom pomračenju Sunca za vrijeme Isusovog raspeća. O istome piše i svjetovni istoričar Flegon.

Samarjanski ljetopisac Abu-l-Fath, upućen u jevrejske i arapske predaje, u 14. vijeku, u ''Samarijanskoj kronici'' ukazuje za Isusovo stradanje i raspinjanje u Jeruzalemu:

''I ja sam našao u starom jevrejskom ljetopisu da su s Njim raspeti dvojica, i da je, učenik Jasu/Isus uzeo glavu Ivana Krstitelja, ubijenoga rukom Heroda iz Sebastije.''

O Isusu svjedoči i jedna karikatura s kraja 2. vijeka, koja se sada nalazi u rimskom Palatinskom dvorcu, a koja je otkrivena 1856. god. Na tom grafitu se podrugljivo prikazuje mladić koji se moli Isusu Raspetom, ovdje prikazanom s magarećom glavom. Uz sliku stoji natpis Aleksamen se klanja svom Bogu

3. Jevrejski spisi o Isusu

Najpoznatiji jevrejski istoričar antike, Josip Flavije dva puta spominje Isusa. U 18. knjizi ''Judejskih starina'', napisanih u 20 knjiga oko 94. godine poslije Krista piše:

"U to vrijeme pojavi se Isus, mudar čovjek, ako se smije čovjekom nazvati, jer je činio velika čuda i bio uvažavan kao učitelj od onih koji su bili željni istine. Za sebe je pridobio mnoge Jevreje, a također i Grke. On je bio Mesija; kad ga je Pilat, na optužbe prvaka našeg naroda osudio na raspeće, ipak su mu ostali vjerni oni koji su ga od početka voljeli: jer im se javio, uskrsnuvši trećeg dana, kao što su to proroci koji su poslani od Boga i prorokovali, koji su za njega predskazali i tisuće drugih čuda; kršćanka sekta, koja se po njemu tako zove, postoji do današnjeg dana."

Danas se općenito smatra da je taj ulomak autentičan, ali da je dio ulomka interpolacija kršćanskog redaktora. Ugledni znanstvenici dokazuju da je ovaj ulomak pisan istim stilom kao i ostatak Josipovog djela i ne sumnjaju u autentičnost. Profesor Schlomo Pines navodi arapsko izdanje Josipovog djela koje je izvorno i koje ne sadrži kršćanske umetke. Tamo stoji:

"U to vrijeme pojavi se Isus, mudar čovjek. Bio je dobrog vladanja i poznat po kreposnosti. Za sebe je pridobio mnoge Jevreje, a također i Grke. Kad ga je Pilat, na optužbe prvaka našeg naroda osudio na raspeće, ipak su mu ostali vjerni oni koji su ga od početka voljeli i izvijestili su da im se javio, uskrsnuvši trećeg dana i da je bio živ. Dakle, on je možda bio dotični Mesija o kojemu su proroci nabrojavali čuda kao što su to proroci od Boga i prorokovali, koji su za njega predskazali i tisuće drugih čuda; kršćanka sekta, koja se po njemu tako zove, postoji do današnjeg dana."

Da je taj odlomak zaista Flavijev smatrao je i Ernest Renan, jedan od najpoznatijih skeptika koji piše:

"Vjerujem u autentičnost ulomka o Isusu (Judejske starine, XVIII,3,3) jer je potpuno u Josipovom stilu i ako taj istoričar već spominje Isusa, to znači da ga je morao spomenuti. Osjećamo jedino kršćansko prerađivanje ulomka, dodavanje pojedinih riječi bez kojih bi bilo gotovo bogohulno (“Kad bi bilo po zakonu nazvati ga čovjekom”), a možda su ispušteni ili modificirani neki izrazi."

Josip Falvije u svom djelu Judjske starine na još jednom mjestu spominje Isusa:

''Zato je (svećenik Anan) sazvao Veliko vijeće i pred njega izveo Jakova, brata Isusova, koji je nazvan Kristom, kao i još neke druge koje je optužio za kršenje zakona i dao ga odvesti na kamenovanje.''

Ovaj odlomak spominje i Origen, još početkom 3. vijeka i niko ne sumnja u njegovu autentičnost. Da se ovdje radi o Isusovom bratu Jakobu, jasno je iz Hegesipovog spisa iz 2. vijeka, koji naširoko piše o Jakobu, prvom jeruzalemskom biskupu.

Za Josipa Flavija, Isusovo je djelovanje jedna od brojnih aktivnosti koje su dovele do jevrejsko-rimskog rata 66. godine.

[grigorije22]

Talmud je najsvetija knjiga judaizma i Jevreja. To je zbirka jevrejske viševjekovne tradicije zapisana u 3. i 4. vijeku. Talmud Isusa spominje na mnogo mjesta i pod raznim imenima: Ješu ben/bar-Pandira (sin rimskoga vojnika po imenu Abdes Pantera), Ješu ha-Nocri (Isus Nazarećanin), Ješua Ben Abuja, Ben Stada ili Ben Soteda, Otpadnik Izraela, 'Taj-i-taj', Mamzer (nezakoniti sin), Bileam…. Mi ćemo se osvrnuti na najzanimljivija mjesta. Sanhedrin 43a govori o Isusovoj smrti. Potvrđeno je da ovaj dio Talmuda datira od ranog perioda kompilacije te knjige (tj. 70.-200. n.e.):

''Poučeni smo: uoči Pashe oni su objesili Ješuu. I oglašivač je stupio pred Njega kroz četrdeset dana (govoreći): On će biti kamenovan, jer se bavio vračanjem i zavodio je Izrael… obijesili su ga uoči Pashe.

Ovaj se tekst podudara s izvještajem iz evanđelja, osim što talmudski pisci pokušavaju opravdati nepoštivanje zakona prema kojem je nakon osude trebalo ostaviti osuđenog četrdeset dana da podnese žalbu, pa navode kako je i Isusu bila ostavljena ta mogućnost. "Obješen" je idiom za raspeće koji se koristi i u Novom zavjetu (Gal.3:13; Lk.23:39). Talmud također navodi da je Isus bio blizak jevrejskim vlastima, što se opet slaže sa Novim zavjetom gdje se navodi da su Josip iz Arimateje i Nikodem, članovi jevrejskog sinedrija bili Isusovi sljedbenici.

Zanimljiv je tekst iz Gemara traktata Suka (52A):

''... Sporili su se rabi Dosa i naši učitelji. Jedan govoraše o Pomazaniku, sinu Josipovom, koji je ubijen, a jedan govoraše o zlom duhu koji je ubijen. ''

Talmud Isusa često naziva sinom Pandere ili Pantere. Postoji i niz priča iz prva dva vijeka koje spominju Isusa pod tim nazivom. Ranije spomenuti osporavatelj kršćanstva Celzo, na temelju jevrejske priče, kasnije zapisane u spisu ''Toledoth Jeshu'' piše:

''Ženu je Mirjam odbacio njezin muž, po zvanju stolar, nakon što ju je osudio zbog preljuba. Ona je u svojoj sramoti putovala od mjesta do mjesta i u tajnosti porodila Isusa, čiji je otac bio neki ratnik imenom Pantera''.

W. Keller piše da su prvi kršćani Isusa zvali ''Sin Djevice'', a kako se djevica na grčkom kaže ''parthenos'', Jevreji su taj izraz okrenuli i od njega napravili ''Ben ha pantera'', tj. ''sin Pantere''. Kako u hebrejskom jeziku nijedan sin ne nosi majčino, već očevo ime, kasnije se proširila priča kako se zapravo radi o Isusovom ocu Panteri. "Toledoth Jeshu" je zanimljiv jer u njemu piše da su učenici pokušali ukrasti Isusovo tijelo, a apologet iz prve polovine 2. vijeka, Justin Mučenik piše da su Jevreji poslali posebne glasnike da utvrde kako je Isusovo tijelo bilo ukradeno, što potvrđuje i Tertulijan.

Jevreji Isusovu istoričnost nikad nisu sporili, štoviše, u bitnim elementima, rabinski spisi iz prvih vjekova poklapaju se sa novozavjetnim spisima.

Dakle, iako je bio jedan od mnoštva vjerskih učitelja, male rimske provincije, iako je većina spisa antičkog svijeta izgubljena, ne samo da nalazimo spominjanje Isusa kod najvažnijih poganskih i jevrejskih pisaca, već se njihovi opisi, u svim bitnim karakteristikama, podudaraju s osnovnim izvještajem iz Novog zavjeta. Zapravo, gotovo možemo rekonstruirati poruku evanđelja koristeći samo rane nekršćanske izvore: Isusa su zvali Kristom (Josip Flavije, Tacit, Svetonije), činio je „čarolije“, odveo Izrael u nove nauke, te su ga na dan Pashe razapeli zbog njih (Babilonski Talmud) u Judeji (Tacit), ali je tvrdio da je Bog i da će se vratiti u što su njegovu sljedbenici vjerovali – štujući ga kao Boga (Josip Flavije, Plinije Mlađi).

[obi-wan]

Popravio sam ti naslov, kaze se Hristos, a ne "Hrist"...

[anajrim]

i nije postojao vec On jeste...ti griso stalno neki dokazi,pa dokazi...

[grigorije22]

Naravno nasa vera je bazirana na dokazima, i zato treba pokazati da ona nije nikakva bajka kako ateisti veruju, i da se posebno

pokaze koliko je to stjupidno kada neko veru u Isusa izjednacava sa verom u Deda Mraza.

[obi-wan]

Naravno nasa vera je bazirana na dokazima, i zato treba pokazati da ona nije nikakva bajka kako ateisti veruju, i da se posebno

pokaze koliko je to stjupidno kada neko veru u Isusa izjednacava sa verom u Deda Mraza.

7896634 shok

[grigorije22]

7896634 shok

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[Аурор]

E sada cu da se bacim na copy paste

Kakvo iznenađenje! Baš ne bih očekivao da ti to uradiš.

Čim sam video u kom smeru kreće tvoj post, znao sam da ćeš navoditi Plinija Mlađeg, Gaja Seutonija i Tacitusa. Čitao sam ih na latinskom sve, kao i mnoge druge dokaze. Svi su (kao dokazi) naravno bezvredni. Ali ajde redom da krenemo.

Plinius Secundus, Pliny The Younger - Governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor (A.D. 112), Pliny was writing the emperor Trajan seeking counsel as to how to treat the Christians.

Da rezimiramo, dokaz da je Isus bio stvarno ljudsko biće je pismo koje je neki namesnik iz Male Azije, sto godina nakon navodnog života Isusa od Nazareta poslao upravi u Rimu, a to pismo je pritom o Hrišćanima kao grupi? Savršeno legitiman dokaz. Dostojan kreacionističke naučne teorije.

Suetonius (A.D. 120) - A Roman historian... , a court official under Hadrian, annalist of the Imperial House, Suetonius says: "As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus [another spelling of Christus], he expelled them from Rome" (Life of Claudius, 25. 4). He also writes: "Punishment by Nero was inflicted on the Christians, a class of men given to a new and mischievous superstition" (Lives of the Caesars, 26. 2)

Još jedan očevidac. Čovek je rođen u Alžiru, živeo u Italiji.

I to STO GODINA NAKON navodnog Isusovog života.

A to Chrestus/Christus nije nikakvo ime već titula.

Na stranu sve, opet se ne odnosi na pojedinačnog čoveka.

Tertullian (Regarding Pilate and Tiberius) - Jurist-theologian of Carthage, in a defense of Christianity (A.D. 197) before the Roman authorities in Africa, mentions the...

Znaš šta, sada dok čitam ovo, počinjem da mislim da su Rimljani imali mašinu za putovanje kroz vreme! Sasvim nehotično, došli smo do senzacionalnog otkrića, doduše tako je to sa njima.

Thallus, the Samaritan-born historian - One of the first Gentile writers who mentions Christ is Thallus, who wrote in A.D. 52. However, his writings have disappeared and we only know of them from fragments cited by other writers. One such writer is Julius Africanus, a Christian writer about A.D. 221.

Aj smisliću dovoljno dobar ridicule na sledećem od dokaza.

And then there is the Letter of Mara Bar-Serapion - It is in the British Museum. A manuscript preserving the text of a letter written around A.D.73. This letter was sent by a Syrian named Mara Bar-Serapion to his son Serapion. He instances the deaths of Socrates, Pythagoras and Christ. "What advantage did the Athenians gain from putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as a judgment for their crime. What advantage did the men of Samos gain from burning Pythagoras? In a moment their land was covered with sand. What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise King? It was just after that their kingdom was abolished. God avenged these three wise men: the Athenians died of hunger; the Samians were overwhelmed by the sea; the Jews, ruined and driven from their land, live in complete dispersion. But Socrates did not die for good; he lived on in the teaching of Plato. Pythagoras did not die for good; he lived on in the statue of Hera. Nor did the wise king die for good; He lived on in the teaching which He had given. 10/114

Filosofsko razmatranje, ne pruža nikakav dokaz.

Imate li vi iskrenost ili ne? Zar to nije hrišćanska vrlina?

Zar nije napisano nešto o iskrenosti ili samo da su pederi bolesni?

[anajrim]

Naravno nasa vera je bazirana na dokazima, i zato treba pokazati da ona nije nikakva bajka kako ateisti veruju, i da se posebno

pokaze koliko je to stjupidno kada neko veru u Isusa izjednacava sa verom u Deda Mraza.

ma ne griso,nije na dokazima.,pa jel' ti vjerujes u Boga zbog nekakvih dokaza...nemoguce je dokazati Boga,a i da to jeste moguce da li bi vjerovao samo zbog toga...pa da je stvarno tako zar ne mislis da bi se On otkrio svima u vidu nekakvog dokaza,pa da svi povjeruju u Njega...ali,On to ne zeli...hoce da nasa zajednica s Njim bude samo i iskljucivo iz ljubavi,i svojim slobodnim izborom...