10 Pitanja ateiste na koja svaki hrišćanin mora da odgovori?

[Grizzly Adams]

Ovo me podseca na onaj saljiv komentar sa Vukajlije: Baba cita Bibliju-jer mora da spremi prijemni  0409_feel womens

Да бре... 0409_feel

Немамо ми времена за спремање пријемног. Имамо ту једну шансу и то је то. Зато кажем да немамо избора.

Занимљива је прича оног младића који је рођен и одрастао у логору у Северној Кореји. Он уопште није знао да постоји свет у коме људи живе слободно, није уопште имао представу шта је то слобода, али је онда чуо од неког логораша о томе (мада му није сасвим веровао) и одлучио се да побегне. Ми смо сви у сличној ситуацији само се привремено заваравамо.

[Natasa.]

Ovo me podseca na onaj saljiv komentar sa Vukajlije: Baba cita Bibliju-jer mora da spremi prijemni  womens 0409_feel

Да бре... 0409_feel

Немамо ми времена за спремање пријемног. Имамо ту једну шансу и то је то. Зато кажем да немамо избора.

Hoces-neces, ako neces, ne moras  0409_feel

[Grizzly Adams]

Ма нормално. Коме је добро у логору не мора да се буни... 0409_feel

[Natasa.]

TI ZIVOT UPOREDJUJES SA LOGOROM  0409_feel?

[Grizzly Adams]

Не живот, него смрт.

[grigorije22]

More Ancient Secular Writtings of Jesus

This is a continuation of the commentary written on 11/28/04, and also taken from the book, "A Ready Defense" by Josh McDowell and compiled by Bill Wilson. The object is to provide you with further proof of the existence of Jesus, outside of the Bible and not written by Christians, but written by secular writers.

Plinius Secundus, Pliny The Younger - Governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor (A.D. 112), Pliny was writing the emperor Trajan seeking counsel as to how to treat the Christians. He explained that he had been killing both men and women, boys and girls. There were so many being put to death that he wondered if he should continue killing anyone who was discovered to be a Christian, or if he should kill only certain ones. He explained that he had made the Christians bow down to the statues of Trajan. He goes on to say that he also "made them curse Christ, which a genuine Christian cannot be induced to do." In the same letter he says of the people who were being tried:

"They affirmed, however, that the whole of their guilt, or their error, was that they were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verse a hymn to Christ as to a God, and bound themselves to a solemn oath, not to do any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft, adultery, never to falsify their word, not to deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up (Epistles, X. 96).

Suetonius (A.D. 120) - A Roman historian, a court official under Hadrian, annalist of the Imperial House, Suetonius says: "As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus [another spelling of Christus], he expelled them from Rome" (Life of Claudius, 25. 4). He also writes: "Punishment by Nero was inflicted on the Christians, a class of men given to a new and mischievous superstition" (Lives of the Caesars, 26. 2)

Tertullian (Regarding Pilate and Tiberius) - Jurist-theologian of Carthage, in a defense of Christianity (A.D. 197) before the Roman authorities in Africa, mentions the exchange between Tiberius and Pontius Pilate: "Tiberius accordingly, in whose days the Christian name made its entry into the world, having himself received intelligence from the truth of Christ's divinity, brought the matter before the senate, with his own decision in favor of Christ. The senate, because it had not given the approval itself, rejected his proposal. Caesar held to his opinion, threatening wrath against all the accusers of the Christians (Apology, V.2).

Thallus, the Samaritan-born historian - One of the first Gentile writers who mentions Christ is Thallus, who wrote in A.D. 52. However, his writings have disappeared and we only know of them from fragments cited by other writers. One such writer is Julius Africanus, a Christian writer about A.D. 221. One very interesting passage relates to a comment from Thallus. Julius Africanus writes: "Thallus in the third book of his histories, explains away this darkness as an eclipse of the sun- unreasonably, as it seems to me" (unreasonably, of course, because a solar eclipse could not take place at the time of the full moon, and it was the season of the Paschal full moon that Christ died). Thus from this reference we see that the Gospel account of the darkness that fell upon the land during Christ's crucifixion was well-known and required a naturalistic explanation from those non-believers who witnessed it. 10/113

Phlegon, a first century historian - He is also mentioned by Julius Africanus, and quotes Phlegon that "during the time of Tiberius Caesar an eclipse of the sun occurred during the full moon". 60/n.p. Phlegon is also mentioned by Origen in Contra Celsum, Book 2, sections 14, 33, 59. "And about this darkness..." He says that "Phlegon mentioned the eclipse which took place during the crucifixion of the Lord Jesus Christ, and no other [eclipse], it is clear he did not know from his sources about any [similar] eclipse in previous times... and this is shown by the historical account itself of Tiberius Caesar."

And then there is the Letter of Mara Bar-Serapion - It is in the British Museum. A manuscript preserving the text of a letter written around A.D.73. This letter was sent by a Syrian named Mara Bar-Serapion to his son Serapion. He instances the deaths of Socrates, Pythagoras and Christ. "What advantage did the Athenians gain from putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as a judgment for their crime. What advantage did the men of Samos gain from burning Pythagoras? In a moment their land was covered with sand. What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise King? It was just after that their kingdom was abolished. God avenged these three wise men: the Athenians died of hunger; the Samians were overwhelmed by the sea; the Jews, ruined and driven from their land, live in complete dispersion. But Socrates did not die for good; he lived on in the teaching of Plato. Pythagoras did not die for good; he lived on in the statue of Hera. Nor did the wise king die for good; He lived on in the teaching which He had given. 10/114

All these historians and non-Christian people wrote about Christ and some of the unexplainable events that took place during His walk on earth. I don’t know how much more written proof one would need to be convinced the Gospels speak the truth.

[grigorije22]

[Natasa.]

Znas, Zvonko, ja nisam zatvorena za mogucnost da jednog dana postanem vernik, ali ne bih volela da budem zato sto se plasim smrti. Tada nikad ne bih bila sigurna da li je moja vera ISTINA ili projekcija zelje za vecnoscu.

[DYNABLASTER]

tu se najmanje radi o plasenju od smrti

[cloudking]

Не живот, него смрт.

Sta se foliras... vec nekoliko postova unazad poredis zivot sa Ausvicom i severnom korejom...

Ja sam upravo to navodio kao argument, da hriscani na ovozemaljski zivot gledaju kao na kaznu pa im je bila neophodna pobeda da bi iz njega pobegli... ali onda ste me uveravali da "neeeeee mi 'riscani salvimo zivot koji nam gospod podario" e cvrc sad... odlucite se vec jednom?

Evo zvonko nedvosmisleno navodi da je zivot nakakva katastrofa i kazna od koje je jedino spas vecni zivot nakon zivota... i da nam za to treba "odabrani" koji ce nam pokazati pravi put kojim cemo da pobegnemo iz ovog uzasa zvanog zivot... (koji nam je taj isti, koji nas od njega spasava, zapravo i dao... smej.gif - makes perfect sense...)

[пинхас]

Григорије, могао си овде на наведеш текстове Владете Јеротића као историјски доказ за Исусово постојање.

[cloudking]

tu se najmanje radi o plasenju od smrti

Citava vasa religija je zasnovana na pobedi nad smrcu i to je glavna okosnica svih teologumena a ti sad "tu se najmanje radi o plasenju od smrti"... daj bre...

smej.gif

(i dalje obozavam ovaj smajli sa listovima marihuane i to na hriscanskom forumu )

leteti leteti leteti leteti

[cloudking]

Григорије, могао си овде на наведеш текстове Владете Јеротића као историјски доказ за Исусово постојање.

Nista ti nisi vid'o... ovde se kao dokaz  o verodostojnosti biblije navode... citati iz biblije  smej.gif

[Crveni Baron]

Григорије, могао си овде на наведеш текстове Владете Јеротића као историјски доказ за Исусово постојање.

Cekaj pinhas, zar ti sumnjas u postojanje Isusa?

[Grizzly Adams]

Znas, Zvonko, ja nisam zatvorena za mogucnost da jednog dana postanem vernik, ali ne bih volela da budem zato sto se plasim smrti. Tada nikad ne bih bila sigurna da li je moja vera ISTINA ili projekcija zelje za vecnoscu.

Ма то је твоја ствар. Не наплаћујем "услуге обраћења", само ћаскамо мало... smej.gif

Свако нормалан се плаши смрти, питање је само - одакле нама уопште жеља за вечношћу? Дефинитивно је истина да волимо живот, као што логораш воли слободу. Ако волимо живот и верујемо да је врховна вредност, онда је Исус из Назарета наш Краљ Живота. Нема другог човека који је икада живео да је прославио живот као он. Зато кажем - ако смо већ чули за то, једино је логично веровати у његово васкрсење. Сваки други став је, бар мени, нелогичан.