Tolkin i Hrišćanstvo

[Богдан_]

Не могу сад да се сетим,да ли има и у књизи,али Гондор тј његов главни град, у филму називају и White City , тако да су београђани чувари трона већ дуже време...

 

И само да кажем Богдану,да је Helloween на првом албуму обрадио "господаре",мада је то та иста екипа Хелоувин,Блајнди,Гама реј...

Знам, знам. :bendoff: Није ли Каи гостовао на "Follow the Blind" i "Tales from the Twilight world" и где све не? Лично више преферирам Гардијане. Иначе, долазе (опет) 2015. :brokoli:

[Плутон]

Као и овог џанкија:

 

Значи истина је. Видиш, имам једну дилему која се надовезује на ово. Пази сад:

 

Наиме, вилењачко дрво, малорн, је бијелога трупа и златног лишћа. Е сад, види ово, одломак из приче коју је записао Вук Караџић, "Вилина гора":

" Mladić pristane na ovo i upute se k vilinoj gori sve stranputicama nekijem, kalauzeći otkupljenik a mladić sustopice za njim, dok tako dođu u nekaku goru, kojoj vrh do mjeseca doticaše, a listovi joj zlatni bjehu a stabla srebrna, a usred nje viđaše se veliki plam i dim od ognja."[/size]

 

Сад, да ли је Толкин ово узео из словенске митологије, или је ова вилинска гора један индоевропски концепт? Е то је моја дилема.

 

Да, да, и Радагаст је још један од наших.

За ово вилењачко дрво не знам, ал' код Толкина има много тога што је искомбиновано из различитих митова. Нпр. Енти су везани и за англо-саксонске и за словенске митове.

 

Може линк, ако има? Радо бих га прочитао у оригиналу 

 

Ево конкретног дела, а иначе то је писмо бр. 142 (142 To Robert Murray, SJ.). Цело писмо. као и остала, можеш да прочиташ овде.

 

"Slavonic languages are for me almost in the same category. I have had a go at many

tongues in my time, but I am in no ordinary sense a 'linguist'; and the time I once spent on trying to

learn Serbian and Russian have left me with no practical results, only a strong impression of the

structure and word-aesthetic."

[GeniusAtWork]

Ko je Tom Bombadil?

 

 

[Ћириличар]

Ko je Tom Bombadil?

 

 

Моја претпоставка - Еру, Илуватар

[НиколајСвесрпски]

Немам став о Толкину и Хришћанству али знам једног јерођакона што воли Толкина.

[GeniusAtWork]

Моја претпоставка - Еру, Илуватар

 

Nije 

 

Was Tom Ilúvatar Himself?

 

Tom's powers are apparently limitless, at least within his own domain, and this has led a lot of people of suggest that he might be none other than Eru Ilúvatar himself. There are certainly several hints in the text of The Lord of the Rings that this might be the case; he is called 'Master', and 'Eldest', and Goldberry says of him simply:

'He is.'

The Lord of the Rings I 7, In the House of Tom Bombadil

 

All of these points might suggest that Tom and Ilúvatar were in some sense the same being. In fact, though, this is one of the very few theories about Tom that we can bring to a definite conclusion. This point is touched on several times in Tolkien's letters, and each time he makes it clear that Tom and Eru should not be confused. Perhaps his most definite statement is this:

'There is no embodiment of the One, of God, who indeed remains remote, outside the World, and only directly accessible to the Valar or Rulers.'

The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien No 181, dated 1956

 

If there is no embodiment of the One (that is, Eru), then Tom cannot of course be such an embodiment.

 

(sa onog linka što sam stavio ranije)

 

 

Izgleda da je to jedna od najvećih misterija u Tolkinovim pisanjima. Čak ima i čitavih eseja na tu temu: link  link 2

[Ћириличар]

Nije 

 

Was Tom Ilúvatar Himself?

 

Tom's powers are apparently limitless, at least within his own domain, and this has led a lot of people of suggest that he might be none other than Eru Ilúvatar himself. There are certainly several hints in the text of The Lord of the Rings that this might be the case; he is called 'Master', and 'Eldest', and Goldberry says of him simply:

'He is.'

The Lord of the Rings I 7, In the House of Tom Bombadil

 

All of these points might suggest that Tom and Ilúvatar were in some sense the same being. In fact, though, this is one of the very few theories about Tom that we can bring to a definite conclusion. This point is touched on several times in Tolkien's letters, and each time he makes it clear that Tom and Eru should not be confused. Perhaps his most definite statement is this:

'There is no embodiment of the One, of God, who indeed remains remote, outside the World, and only directly accessible to the Valar or Rulers.'

The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien No 181, dated 1956

 

If there is no embodiment of the One (that is, Eru), then Tom cannot of course be such an embodiment.

 

(sa onog linka što sam stavio ranije)

 

 

Izgleda da je to jedna od najvećih misterija u Tolkinovim pisanjima. Čak ima i čitavih eseja na tu temu: link  link 2

Дођавола, а таман се понадах...

Онда би се ваљало упоредо са питањем Тома Бомбадила требало поставити и питање ко је Унголијанта.

 

Унголијанту је Моргот нашао изван Ее, или изван Арде само ( не сјећам се тачно ), и постојала је прије стварања Свијета, а није ни Валар ни Мајар, нити се спомиње у миту о стварању.

 

Може бити да је Том дух Арде? Ево нађох у тим есејима:

 

"Beginning as early as Issac and Zimbardo's Tolkien and His Critics, published in 1968, Tom Bombadil has almost universally been regarded as a nature spirit. In that volume, Edmund Fuller states that he is "unclassifiable other than as some primal nature spirit" (p. 23). According to Patricia Meyer Spacks, Tom has natural power for good and he "is in the most intimate communion with natural forces; he has the power of the 'earth itself"' (p. 84). R. J. Reilly claims that Tom is "a kind of archetypal 'vegetation god"' (p. 131) and argues that "when Tom Bombadil speaks, it is as if Nature itself - nonrational, interested only in life and in growing things were speaking (p. 139). This view of Tom, as a nonrational nature spirit, as a personification of nature itself, has been the dominant view ever since. Ruth S. Noel in The Mythology of Middle-earth, published in 1977, in perhaps the longest and most elaborate discussion of him, begins with the remark that "Tom Bombadil is a character like Puck or Pan, a nature god in diminished form, half humorous, half divine" (p. 127) and she concludes with the remark that Bombadil and Goldberry are undisguised personifications of land untouched by humans, underlaid by a hidden but potent power, representing both the danger of wild land and its potential to serve man" (p. 130). Anne C. Petty in One Ring to Bind Them, published in 1979, summarizes all of the above with the proclamation that Tom is "the nature deity par excellence" (p. 38)."

[Ћириличар]

На крају заиста се вјероватним чини да је Том заправо Ауле. Објашњено у есејима што је Genious поставио