Папа подржао кориштење кондома

[Владан]

Vrhovni poglavar katoličke crkve Papa Benedikt XVI podržao je danas korišćenje kondoma u borbi protiv side, prenosi "Dejli telegraf".

http://www.blic.rs/Vesti/Svet/218760/Papa-podrzao-koriscenje-

[Дејан]

Vrhovni poglavar katoličke crkve Papa Benedikt XVI podržao je danas korišćenje kondoma u borbi protiv side, prenosi "Dejli telegraf".

Nakon decenija oštrog protivljenja katoličke crkve korišćenju kontraceptivnih sredstava tokom seksualnih odnosa, ova izjava predstavlja prvu zvaničnu promenu u stavu crkve.

Papa je u intervjuu, na pitanje novinara da li katolička crkva brani upotrebu kondoma visokorizičnim grupama, odgovorio da je korišćenje prihvatljivo u nekim slučajevima.

"Mi to, naravno, ne vidimo kao realno i moralno rešenje. Ipak u nekim slučajevima, gde postoji namera da se smanji rizik od infekcije, oni (kondomi) mogu značiti prvi korak ka drugačijoj seksualnosti koja je više ljudska", rekao je papa.

Katolička crkva se protivi korišćenju kontracepcije jer smatra da je to mešanje u stvaranje života.

On je istakao da je apstinencija najbolji način borbe protiv polno prenosivih bolesti, ali je dodao da je u nekim uslovima bolje koristiti kondom da bi se zaštitili ljudski životi.

"Postoje opravdani slučajevi, kao na primer kada muške prostitutke koriste kondome, što na neki način predstavlja pojavu odgovornijeg ponašanja, i razumevanja da nije baš sve dozvoljeno. Ali, ovo nije pravi način da se osoba nosi sa užasom HIV infekcije", objasnio je svoj stav papa.

Zanimljiva je ova izjava koja pokazuje radikalnu promenu u stavu poglavara crkve, koji je prošle godine tokom posete Africi izjavio da kondomi neće sprečiti širenje infekcije.

"Naprotiv, oni povećavaju problem", rekao je tada papa Benedikt XVI.

U knjizi nazvanoj "Svetlost života: Papa, crkva i znaci vremena", biće objavljen dugačak intervjuu u kome se papa osvrnuo i na skandale o seksualnom zlostavljanju u okviru crkve, kao i na problem zabrane burki.

"Hrišćani su tolerantni i poštuju način na koji se drugi predstavljaju. Što se tiče burki, ne vidim nikakav razlog za njihovu zabranu", rekao je papa.

[Zawisza]

Šta znači "podržao"?

Lepo kaže da u nekim slučajevima može biti prihvatljuvo. Sigurno da je razlika između podrške i prihvatljivosti. Uostalom naši medicinski stručnjaci tvrde da je HIV virus toliko mali da može da se provuče kroz pore na lateksu i da je to slaba zaštita.

[Владан]

Šta znači "podržao"?

Lepo kaže da u nekim slučajevima može biti prihvatljuvo. Sigurno da je razlika između podrške i prihvatljivosti. Uostalom naši medicinski stručnjaci tvrde da je HIV virus toliko mali da može da se provuče kroz pore na lateksu i da je to slaba zaštita.

с обзиром колико је РКЦ била искључива по овом питању ово је озбиљан искорак папе или хоћеш рећи да је погријешио у нечему? crvenilo

[Semberac]

Само доказ да је папа прихватио пораз пред светом. Не држи се својих ставова, какав је то човјек који поклекне пред светом?

Да се ми држимо хришћанског морала, неби СИДА ниакав проблем био.

[Aquilius Cratus]

Само доказ да је папа прихватио пораз пред светом. Не држи се својих ставова, какав је то човјек који поклекне пред светом?

Да се ми држимо хришћанског морала, неби СИДА ниакав проблем био.

A hepatitis?

[Zawisza]

Само доказ да је папа прихватио пораз пред светом. Не држи се својих ставова, какав је то човјек који поклекне пред светом?

Да се ми држимо хришћанског морала, неби СИДА ниакав проблем био.

Pišeš gluposti, bolest je bolest, bio je ptičiji grip pa su zabranjeni skupovi, sad treba da ignorišemo bolest i da se držimo slepo principa. Pa nije subota radi čoveka.

Ne znam na kakav poraz misliš i na koji svet, ako si ti jedino taj svet pa smo poklekli pred tobom.

Bolest nije samo stvar hrišćanskog morala ili nemorala. Hrišćanstvo je pre svega vera slobodnog čoveka, očigledno je da to ne shvataš.  

[Александар Милојков]

Pa nije subota radi čoveka.

Вероватно си мислио обрнуто: није човек суботе ради, јер ово горе је исправан став.

[Владан]

Само доказ да је папа прихватио пораз пред светом. Не држи се својих ставова, какав је то човјек који поклекне пред светом?

Да се ми држимо хришћанског морала, неби СИДА ниакав проблем био.

Pišeš gluposti, bolest je bolest, bio je ptičiji grip pa su zabranjeni skupovi, sad treba da ignorišemo bolest i da se držimo slepo principa. Pa nije subota radi čoveka.

Ne znam na kakav poraz misliš i na koji svet, ako si ti jedino taj svet pa smo poklekli pred tobom.

Bolest nije samo stvar hrišćanskog morala ili nemorala. Hrišćanstvo je pre svega vera slobodnog čoveka, očigledno je da to ne shvataš.  

донелке се слажем с тобом, али познато је да се хив инфекција најчешће преноси путе незаштићеног сексуалног односа , хив као инф географски је најзаступљенији у земљама трећег свијета, у сваком случају фин иступ Папе...хех

[Zawisza]

Teo  sam reći:

"Nije čovek stvoren radi subote, nego subota radi čovek

[Zawisza]

Pažljivo sam sada pročitao papinu izjavu prevedenu na poljski jezik.

Nema ni govora da je papa pomenuo prezervative u cilju kontracepcije već u cilju zaštite zdravlja što ima sasvim drugu dimenziju od novinarske senzacije.

[Aristotel]

Rasprava na forumu često započne od problematičnih "vijesti", pa onda nema dobru perspektivu.

A koga zanima vijest iz prve ruke - evo je:

Statement on Pontiff's Words Regarding Condoms

"The Pope Does Not Reform or Change the Church's Teaching"

VATICAN CITY, NOV. 21, 2010 (Zenit.org).- Here is a statement released today by Jesuit Father Federico Lombardi, director of the Vatican press office, regarding the words of Benedict XVI regarding condoms as recorded in a book, "Light of the World," scheduled for release on Tuesday.

On Saturday, L'Osservatore Romano published some quotes from this book, which drew public interest and prompted Father Lombardi to release a statement of clarification. ZENIT will publish excerpts from the English translation of the book over the next couple of days.

* * *

At the end of chapter 10 of the book "Light of the World" the Pope responds to two questions about the battle against AIDS and the use of condoms, questions that reconnect with the discussion that followed some statements that the Pope made on the theme during the course of his trip to Africa in 2009.

The Pope again clearly stresses that at that time he had not intended to take a position on the problem of condoms in general, but wanted to affirm with force that the problem of AIDS cannot be solved simply by distributing condoms, because much more needs to be done: prevention, education, help, counsel, being with people both to keep them from getting sick and in the case that they do get sick.

The Pope observes that even in the non-ecclesial context an analogous awareness has developed, as is apparent in the so-called ABC theory (Abstinence -- Be Faithful -- Condom), in which the first two elements (abstinence and fidelity) are more decisive and basic in the battle against AIDS, while condoms appear in the last place as a way out, when the other two are not there. It should thus be clear that condoms are not the solution to the problem.

The Pope then broadens the perspective and insists on the fact that focusing only on condoms is equivalent to banalizing sexuality, which loses its meaning as an expression of love between persons and becomes a "drug." Fighting against banalization of sexuality is "part of the great effort to help sexuality be valued positively and have a positive effect on man in his totality."

In the light of this broad and profound vision of human sexuality and the contemporary discussion of it, the Pope reaffirms that "naturally the Church does not consider condoms as the authentic and moral solution" to the problem of AIDS.

In this the Pope does not reform or change the Church's teaching, but reaffirms it, placing it in the perspective of the value and dignity of human sexuality as an expression of responsible love.

At the same time the Pope considers an exceptional circumstance in which the exercise of sexuality represents a real threat for the life of another. In that case, the Pope does not morally justify the disordered exercise of sexuality but maintains that the use of a condom to reduce the danger of infection may be "a first act of responsibility," "a first step on the road toward a more human sexuality," rather than not using it and exposing the other to risking his life.

In this, the reasoning of the Pope certainly cannot be defined as a revolutionary change. Numerous moral theologians and authoritative ecclesiastical figures have supported and support analogous positions; it is nevertheless true that we have not heard this with such clarity from the mouth of the Pope, even if it is in a informal and not magisterial form.

With courage Benedict XVI thus offers us an important contribution of clarification and reflection on a question that has long been debated. It is an original contribution, because on one hand it maintains fidelity to moral principles and demonstrates lucidity in refuting an illusory path like that of the "confidence is condoms"; on the other hand, however, it manifests a comprehensive and far-seeing vision, attentive to uncovering the small steps -- even if only initial and still -- of an often spiritually and culturally impoverished humanity, toward a more human and responsible exercise of sexuality.

[Translation from Italian original by Joseph G. Trabbic]

[Aristotel]

A koga zanima objašnjenje - evo ga:

Benedict XVI, Condoms, and the Light of the World

Interview With Janet Smith

DETROIT, NOV. 21, 2010 (Zenit.org).- A book-length interview with Benedict XVI, due to be released on Tuesday, is already causing controversy in the public spotlight due to the Pope's comments on the use of condoms.

Some quotes from the book, "Light of the World" (Ignatius Press), were published ahead of the release date, prompting media opinions and a statement of clarification by Father Federico Lombardi, director of the Vatican press office.

Janet Smith, a consultor to the Pontifical Council on the Family who holds the Father Michael J. McGivney Chair of Life Ethics at Sacred Heart Major Seminary in Detroit, and has published extensively on the topics of sexuality and bioethics, explained in this interview the source of the controversy and what the Pope is really saying.

She noted that in the book (p.119), to the charge that "It is madness to forbid a high-risk population to use condoms," Pope Benedict replied (This paragraph is at the end of an extended answer on the help the Church is giving the AIDS victims and the need to fight the banalization of sexuality.):

"There may be a basis in the case of some individuals, as perhaps when a male prostitute uses a condom, where this can be a first step in the direction of a moralization, a first assumption of responsibility, on the way toward recovering an awareness that not everything is allowed and that one cannot do whatever one wants. But it is not really the way to deal with the evil of HIV infection. That can really lie only in a humanization of sexuality."

The interviewer asked the Pontiff, "Are you saying, then, that the Catholic Church is actually not opposed in principle to the use of condoms?"

The Holy Father replied, "She of course does not regard it as a real or moral solution, but, in this or that case, there can be nonetheless, in the intention of reducing the risk of infection, a first step in a movement toward a different way, a more human way, of living sexuality."

Smith explains in the following interview, which she sent to ZENIT, how Benedict XVI was advocating conversion, not condoms, in the striving for moral behavior.

Q: What is Pope Benedict saying?

Smith: We must note that the example that Pope Benedict gives for the use of a condom is a male prostitute; thus, it is reasonable to assume that he is referring to a male prostitute engaged in homosexual acts.

The Holy Father is simply observing that for some homosexual prostitutes the use of a condom may indicate an awakening of a moral sense; an awakening that sexual pleasure is not the highest value, but that we must take care that we harm no one with our choices.

He is not speaking to the morality of the use of a condom, but to something that may be true about the psychological state of those who use them. If such individuals are using condoms to avoid harming another, they may eventually realize that sexual acts between members of the same sex are inherently harmful since they are not in accord with human nature.

The Holy Father does not in any way think the use of condoms is a part of the solution to reducing the risk of AIDs. As he explicitly states, the true solution involves "humanizing sexuality."

Anyone having sex that threatens to transmit HIV needs to grow in moral discernment. This is why Benedict focused on a "first step" in moral growth.

The Church is always going to be focused on moving people away from immoral acts towards love of Jesus, virtue, and holiness. We can say that the Holy Father clearly did not want to make a point about condoms, but wants to talk about growth in a moral sense, which should be a growth towards Jesus.

Q: So is the Holy Father saying it is morally good for male prostitutes to use condoms?

Smith: The Holy Father is not articulating a teaching of the Church about whether or not the use of a condom reduces the amount of evil in a homosexual sexual act that threatens to transmit HIV.

The Church has no formal teaching about how to reduce the evil of intrinsically immoral action. We must note that what is intrinsically wrong in a homosexual sexual act in which a condom is used is not the moral wrong of contraception but the homosexual act itself.

In the case of homosexual sexual activity, a condom does not act as a contraceptive; it is not possible for homosexuals to contracept since their sexual activity has no procreative power that can be thwarted.

But the Holy Father is not making a point about whether the use of a condom is contraceptive or even whether it reduces the evil of a homosexual sexual act; again, he is speaking about the psychological state of some who might use condoms. The intention behind the use of the condom (the desire not to harm another) may indicate some growth in a sense of moral responsibility.

In "Familiaris Consortio (On the Role of the Christian Family in the Modern World)," John Paul II spoke of the need for conversion, which often proceeds by gradual steps:

"To the injustice originating from sin ... we must all set ourselves in opposition through a conversion of mind and heart, following Christ Crucified by denying our own selfishness: such a conversion cannot fail to have a beneficial and renewing influence even on the structures of society.

"What is needed is a continuous, permanent conversion which, while requiring an interior detachment from every evil and an adherence to good in its fullness, is brought about concretely in steps which lead us ever forward. Thus a dynamic process develops, one which advances gradually with the progressive integration of the gifts of God and the demands of His definitive and absolute love in the entire personal and social life of man. (9)"

Christ himself, of course, called for a turning away from sin. That is what the Holy Father is advocating here; not a turn towards condoms. Conversion, not condoms!

Q: Would it be proper to conclude that the Holy Father would support the distribution of condoms to male prostitutes?

Smith: Nothing he says here indicates that he would. Public programs of distribution of condoms run the risk of conveying approval for homosexual sexual acts.

The task of the Church is to call individuals to conversion and to moral behavior; it is to help them understand the meaning and purpose of sexuality and to help them come to know Christ, who will provide the healing and graces that enable us to live in accord with the meaning and purpose of sexuality.

Q: Is Pope Benedict indicating that heterosexuals who have HIV could reduce the wrongness of their acts by using condoms?

Smith: No. In his second answer he says that the Church does not find condoms to be a "real or moral solution." That means the Church does not find condoms either to be moral or an effective way of fighting the transmission of HIV. As the Holy Father indicates in his fuller answer, the most effective portion of programs designed to reduce the transmission of HIV are calls to abstinence and fidelity.

The Holy Father, again, is saying that the intention to reduce the transmission of any infection is a "first step" in a movement towards a more human way of living sexuality. That more human way would be to do nothing that threatens to harm one's sexual partner, who should be one's beloved spouse. For an individual with HIV to have sexual intercourse with or without a condom is to risk transmitting a lethal disease.

An analogy: If someone was going to rob a bank and was determined to use a gun, it would better for that person to use a gun that had no bullets in it. It would reduce the likelihood of fatal injuries. But it is not the task of the Church to instruct potential bank robbers how to rob banks more safely and certainly not the task of the Church to support programs of providing potential bank robbers with guns that could not use bullets.

Nonetheless, the intent of a bank robber to rob a bank in a way that is safer for the employees and customers of the bank may indicate an element of moral responsibility that could be a step towards eventual understanding of the immorality of bank robbing.

[Александар Милојков]

Ма мени је потпуно јасно шта је Папа хтео да каже, тако да ми ове новинарске сензације изгледају управо као професионално кидање ствари из контекста рад - тиража, што ће рећи - ПРОФИТ!!! Ах, тај лажебог палог човечанства коме сви желе да служе и којим се све мери - ПРОФИТ!