Eastern orthodox Church apologetics

[EastSide]

Apologetic for Eastern Orthodox Church

There are some questions regarding Eastern Orthodox Church.

Symbolism in Eastern orthodox Church

Question: Into some icons a skull and bones appear under the cross of Jesus Christ. What is the meaning of the skull and bones.

Response: I believe the skull and bones signifies death and the overall message is that Crucifixion means victory over death. The fact that other organizations appearing 1000+ years later use the same symbols it does not mean anything for Eastern Orthodox Church.

Icons in the Church

Question: Are icons idolatry?

Response: There are many points here that can be made.

Idolatry: Before understanding if something may be idolatry we need to define idolatry.

My definition of idolatry means to believe that somebody or something is equal or above God.

So idolatry is not about external behavior is about internal belief.

See, for example if a boy kneels in front of a girl, is not idolatry since the boy does not believe that girl is above or equal with God. Kneeling in front of a girl is a sign of respect and love not idolatry. Kissing the picture of a mother is not idolatry since mother is not above or equal with God . However  kissing the picture of a mother is a sign of love. On the same level, bowing in front of an icon or kissing an icon is not idolatry since nobody believes that an icon is equal or above God.

In Eastern Orthodox Christianity nobody and nothing is equal or above God so there is impossible of having idolatry. 

Kissing an icon is a sign of respect and love for the saints or God depicted in the icon.

Can icons be used in Temples or Churches?

Well, there are two interpretations of the 10 Laws.

One interpretation says that people are not allowed to have ANY image made by men and that by doing so people border idolatry. The interesting fact is that denominations having this interpretation do not respect it. You see these denominations having TV programs, publishing RELIGIOUS magazines WITH PICTURES of things above Earth and so on. So they say we believe in something we don't respect anyhow but we consider that you should respect it.

This interpretation has great problems with God ordering people of Old Law to have cherubim on the temple 1 King 6:23-24 and angels on the ark of covenant. We see God approving the Temple, in 1 King 9:23 , even if the Temple had images on its walls .  This interpretation can not explain why Apostle Luke was a known painter of icons that are kept even today http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:St_luke_displaying_a_painting_of_the_virgin_guercino.jpg , and can not explain why Jesus put his face on a napkin that he sent to the King Abgarus of Edessa so he was cured of leprosy. This napkin with image of God is like an icon. Also this image cured leprosy, so this was a miracle working icon and was displayed on a gate for entering the city. http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/LostBooks/lettersJesusAbgarus.htm

Another interpretation says that is Ok to have images on temple doors and images however you should not consider these images to be above or equal with God thus idols. Under this interpretation any icon is Ok as long as it is not considered above or equal with God.

However there is something more into it. The Bible has two parts, the Old Testament and the New Testament. In the Old Testament is the Old Law WITHOUT salvation power and in the New testament is the New Law with salvation power. These Laws are distinct:

-in Old Law you are people of God in New Law you are children of God and asked to call God Father. Baptism is dying as child of Adam and becoming child of God born of God, Holy Spirit in baptism. As child of God you are allowed to see :cheesy:. Do you understand? As child of Adam, every religion beside Christianity may not see . As child of God, born of God through baptism, you can see .

-in Old Law you are circumcised that means flesh belongs to God. In new Law you are baptized that means flesh and soul belongs to God

-in Old Law people were not allowed to see God and paint God, in New Law children of God were allowed to see God and to paint God in icons

See, before Old Law there was Noahide Law that was supposed to be without ending for Normal people. When Moses came and made people as people of God, they had the Old Law renouncing entirely to Noahide Law. It was not 50% Noahide, 50% Old Law or 10% Noahide and 90% Old Law. It was 100% Old Law.

Now, when people become Children of God, the Old Law does not apply to them at all, neither 10 commandments, neither Saturday, neither circumcision, neither nothing out of Old Law.

Yes Noahide Law may have something wise in it and Old Law may have something wise into it, however these laws have not salvation power, they offer NO ETERNAL LIFE and NO ENTRANCE to , and they are not supposed to be followed at all by Christians.

So to say God ordered people to do that is not enough. Are you referring to people of God to which applies Old Law or are you referring to children of God to which applies New Law.

To ask why people of God do not respect New Law or why children of God do not respect the Old Law has the following answer. Because they are not supposed to.

Lets say a comparison, lets compare normal people with 3rd graders, people of God with 8th graders and children of God with PhD or doctoral degrees. Lets compare Noahide Laws with the eternal regulations for 3rd graders, the Moses Laws with the eternal regulations for 8th graders and New Laws with eternal regulations for PhD.

In 3rd grade you are supposed to follow 3rd grade rule, the Noahide laws. Then you advance to 8th grade by circumcision becoming people of God from normal people and here you are supposed to respect the Moses Laws with Saturday and flesh eating restrictions. Then you advance even more to PhD by baptism and becoming child of God , so you get eternal life and entrance to crvenilo and here you are supposed to follow the NEW LAW. To say that somebody going to 8th grade should follow 3rd grade regulations is nonsense, and in the same sense is nonsense to ask a Christian to respect Old Testament percepts.

History: From an historical point of view we see images like icons used in the Judaic temples.

Actually God ordered people in Old Law to have cherub on the walls of the temple. We see Jesus sending to King Abgarus his face, http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/LostBooks/lettersJesusAbgarus.htm , God's face on a napkin, we see Apostle Luke as a very talented painter of icons http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:St_luke_displaying_a_painting_of_the_virgin_guercino.jpg , then we see all the Early Church  venerating icons. The we see Protestantism departing from Church tradition and leaving NEW LAW's, food for eternal life and going straight to OLD LAW that has NO salvation power and getting either Saturday celebration and mixing Old Law with New Law. Also we see them raising against icons, against what Apostle and Evangelist Luke did. This does not make sense.

Question: Are icons worshiped?

Answer: For something or somebody to be worshiped means to be considered equal or above God. If anything or anybody is below God, then everything you do it can not be worshiping. Icons are below God so they can not be worshiped. Using incense near icons is a sign of veneration like in the Judaism, incense was used for the arc of the Covenant .

Question: Because Christianity allows eating of more animal flesh, is in any way Christianity inferior to other religions not allowing that?

Response: Before flood people were not allowed to eat any flesh. Are we going to imply that they had a better religion than everybody because they did not eat any flesh? No. They may not had at that time entrance to heaven and Eternal life and salvation since year 5500 had not arrived.

Question:Is blood atonement necessary?

Response:There is confession that erases sins and this was the conception of Early Church until Protestant invention.

Question: Many things held true by Christianity are not in the Bible. According with our principle of Sola Scriptura we will not consider these.

Response: Well, Martin Luther, Calvin, Johnny and White are not in the Bible so according with Sola Scriptura principle they are not necessary for salvation. Protestantism is not in the Bible, the Reform is not in the Bible and according with Sola Scriptura you should not listen to it. Because you believe that if something not in Bible is not necessary for salvation, then protestantism is not in Bible so according with Sola Scriptura it is not necessary for salvation so you can come home, to eastern orthodox Church, the Church of your forefathers. So if you do not respect your principle don't ask us to respect every principle you don't respect.

Sola Scriptura is this. Out of 1 billion valid historical documents , Sola Scriptura takes everything and throws it out of the window keeping just Bible. Then everything that is not found in the Bible is built based on imagination and because imagination is different you have 30 000 different pictures of reality, 30 000 of protestant denominations that flagrantly contradict many valid historical documents, documents that are recording beliefs of Early Church. To be understood better, think what would happen with history if all the valid historical document will be thrown away and just the writings of Herodotus will be kept, and everything will be built on imagination having 30 000 different histories contradicting each other. Do you see what kind of thing is asking Protestantism from Eastern orthodoxy? To throw away valid historical documents and to believe imagination. In almost all debates orthodoxy versus protestantism are debates between valid historical documents and imagination.

OK, lets say I am an history teach and today I am going to teach you about Columbus discovering America. But I am going to teach you following Sola Herodotus. That is I am taking all historical documents and throw them on window and I am keeping just the works of Herodotus, the Father of History.

So based on Herodotus nothing I can find out about Columbus so I let my imaginations fly. So Columbus bought 20 jet planes from King of France . And he flew them and landed on a airport built by Amerindian people. Why are you laughing?  This is Sola Herodotus. This is like protestantism. And he took his people on motorcycles and two SUV's and went far into America. What? It does not contradict Herodotus  writings and anything else you're going to show me I am not going to consider. Because is not in the Herodotus and thus is not necessary  for history.

So if Sola Herodotus does not work, Sola Scriptura works worst than that. If you don't believe Columbus went with passenger plane , then you are safe not believing Protestant stories.

So for things that are not in the Bible Sola Scriptura can become Sola Imagination. But anyhow , how does Orthodox Church interprets Bible? Thanks for asking. Bible is inspired by God so God knows what it is in the Bible. So a man ask,ed God to interpret Bible for him and God sent Apostle Paul after his death and explained to the man , named St John Chrysostom the Bible. So Orthodox Church goes after this explanation that was rewritten by Theophylact. So you can either read  homilies of St John Chrysostom or Theophylact.

Take for example icons. There are icons painted by Apostle and Evangelist Luke in Orthodox monasteries, however Protestantism speaks against icons, speaks against the work of Apostle and Evangelist Luke.

Prayers of Intercession:

Question:

Since Jesus is only intercessor between men and God, is it good to pray to Saints?

Response:

Jeremiah prayed for his people. Moses prayed for his people and was heard. Apostle Paul prayed for many Christians. As we see praye3r of intercession works very well and asking saints to intercede in front of Jesus is very useful and this had happen for first 1500 years of Early Church.