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Da protestant postane pravoslavac - zašto?

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пре 4 часа, Tumaralo. рече

Ako je Bog pravedan, onda je nemoguće da će kazniti čoveka u večnosti ako je ovaj sagrešio u vremenu (a inače je i rođen grešan).

Pazi, i pre nego što sam znao za sebe - bio sam grešan.

Čovek je slobodno biće a ima uzrok! Kako je to moguće? To je sa filozofske strane nerešiv problem.

Čovek ne može da bira ni da li će biti rođen ali zato može večno da ispašta ??

Što se tiče ljudske slobode i spasenja, tu sam najbliži avgustinovskom gledištu (u modernom vremenu- Kalvin).

Pitanje za tebe: jel ti je bliži traducijanizam ili kreacijanizam?

To su malo "teze" teme. Mislim da ima puno stvari koje cemo tek otkriti kad stignemo u nebo. 

Sta je traducijanizam? 

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пре 8 часа, Desiderius Erasmus рече

Ma, kapiram ja da Crkva mora da brani pravoverje, ali mi se nekako ne sviđaju te tolike anateme...

Pa možemo sa sigurnošću konstatirati da je anatema zbog filiokve bila katastrofalna posljedica za sve kršćane kao i ona gdje je Luter izopćen.

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On 23.10.2019. at 15:11, ΙΧΘΥϹ рече

Ja sam samo izneo kako je Isus video stvari. Iako se mozda nisu slagali u nekim pitanjima, ili nisu bili deo iste grupe Isus ih nije odbacio nego prihvatio. Nema tu teorije ili prakse, to je jendostavno nacin nakoji on deluje. Ne zastupam ja nikakav liberalizam.

Ali evo ja licno smatram bratom svakog ko ispunjava uslove za spasenje. Na kraju krajeva, bicemo zajedno u nebu. Mozemo da razmisljamo o pojedinim stvarima drugacije, ili cak i da ne budemo u pravu uvezi istih. Ali ako one nisu bitni za spasenje, onda je to uglavnom ubedjivanje, vrbovanje...

Ali ono sto je sustina, jeste da smo mi ljudi napravili podele... Bogu je to sve verovatno smesno, ili tuzno... ali postoje samo 2 vrste ljudi: vernici i nevernici. I to stalno potenciranje na tome, mi smo jedina prava crkva, mi smo pravoslavni, mi smo najbolji, najpametniji...

Bog nas ne gleda kao pravoslavce, katolike ili protestante, nego binarno: da li smo za ili protiv njega. A ljudi Bozjih ima svugde...

Nas vernike bi ljudi trebali da prepoznaju po ljubavi i jedinstvu. Ali toga ima jako malo.

 

 

 

Pa piše u Svetom pismu za one koji imenom Isusovim izgone demone, a nisu apostoli. Pa Gospod kaže pustite ih, ko nije protiv nas, sa nama je.

U Svetom pismu još piše to za mrtve da će ih Gospod vaskrsnuti u dan Gospodnji...pa me eto zanima uopšte (pitam i pravoslavce) Kako se to tumači, zajedno sa pričom o Lazaru i bogatašu. Jel ima to negde objašnjeno?

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пре 39 минута, Ekatarina_mala рече

Pa piše u Svetom pismu za one koji imenom Isusovim izgone demone, a nisu apostoli. Pa Gospod kaže pustite ih, ko nije protiv nas, sa nama je.

U Svetom pismu još piše to za mrtve da će ih Gospod vaskrsnuti u dan Gospodnji...pa me eto zanima uopšte (pitam i pravoslavce) Kako se to tumači, zajedno sa pričom o Lazaru i bogatašu. Jel ima to negde objašnjeno?

Mojsije, Ilija, Lazar i oni sveti poslije smrti Isusove kad se zemlja potresla što se pokazaše u Jeruzalemu su već Uskrsli.

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пре 11 минута, kopitar рече

Mojsije, Ilija, Lazar i oni sveti poslije smrti Isusove kad se zemlja potresla što se pokazaše u Jeruzalemu su već Uskrsli.

KOliko kapiram protestanti veruju (neki ili svi) da će samo usnuli u Hristu vaskrsnuti, a grešni kao neće. To mi je ostalo nedorečeno.

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On 23.10.2019. at 21:24, kopitar рече

Pa možemo sa sigurnošću konstatirati da je anatema zbog filiokve bila katastrofalna posljedica za sve kršćane kao i ona gdje je Luter izopćen.

Kod filiokve je, po meni, potreban dijalog između pravoslavnih i rimokatolika, da se vidi šta vi mislite kad kažete filiokve, a šta mi kad to čujemo.

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пре 53 минута, Ekatarina_mala рече

Pa sigurno poznajete različita učenja. Ovo mi je zanimljiva tema, pa rekoh da prodiskutujete ako imate vremena. i želite naravno.

Naravno da zelim. Samo ce mi trebati malo vise vremena, posto je to cela jedan nauka u teologiji, zvana eshatologija, ali pokusacu da sazmem sve nekako.

Ako se ne varam, @kopitar je delio neke linkove sa youtube kanala PHZ (Protestantske Hriscanske Zajednice) na ovom forumu.
Ali ako te interesuju neka ucenja protestantske evandjeoske crkve, mozes naci dosta dobrih videa ovde (ima cela playlista):

Pastor Bera ima svakog utorka u 9 youtube emisiju "Teologija uz jutarnju kafu", i ovde su sve emisije do sad (preko 50). Ima dosta materijala, pa mozes pogledati, verujem da ces naci puno zajednickih verovanja.

Bozji blagoslov!

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пре 3 часа, Desiderius Erasmus рече

Kod filiokve je, po meni, potreban dijalog između pravoslavnih i rimokatolika, da se vidi šta vi mislite kad kažete filiokve, a šta mi kad to čujemo.

Mi kažemo filiokve a vi čujete jeres...:))

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  • Сличан садржај

    • Од Bernard,
      According to ancient Greek legend, the great warrior, Achilles, was invulnerable against attack, except for one area of weakness—his heel. That weakness would be exploited near the end of the Trojan War by Paris. As the story goes, he shot Achilles in the heel with an arrow, killing his seemingly undefeatable foe. 
      Okay, so referring to Sola Scriptura as the Protestant Achilles's Heel is not a perfect analogy. There are many weak spots in Protestant theology. But the use of the image of "Achilles's Heel" in prose today is employed not only to accentuate a singular weakness in an otherwise impenetrable person or institution, but a particularly acute weakness. It is in that sense that I think the analogy fits.
      Sola Scriptura was the central doctrine and foundation for all I believed when I was Protestant. On a popular level, it simply meant, “If a teaching isn’t explicit in the Bible, then we don’t accept it as doctrine!” And it seemed so simple. Unassailable. And yet, I do not recall ever hearing a detailed teaching explicating it. It was always a given. Unchallenged. Diving deeper into its meaning, especially when I was challenged to defend my Protestant faith against Catholicism, I found there to be no book specifically on the topic and no uniform understanding of this teaching among Protestant pastors.
      Once I got past the superficial, I had to try to answer real questions like, what role does tradition play? How explicit does a doctrine have to be in Scripture before it can be called doctrine? How many times does it have to be mentioned in Scripture before it would be dogmatic? Where does Scripture tell us what is absolutely essential for us to believe as Christians? How do we know what the canon of Scripture is using the principle of sola scriptura? Who is authorized to write Scripture in the first place? When was the canon closed? Or, the best question of all: where is sola scriptura taught in the Bible? These questions and more were left virtually unanswered or left to the varying opinions of various Bible teachers.
      The Protestant Response
      In answer to this last question, “Where is sola scriptura taught in the Bible?” most Protestants will immediately respond as I did, by simply citing II Tm. 3:16:
      All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
      “How can it get any plainer than that? Doesn’t that say the Bible is all we need?” Question answered.
      The fact is: II Timothy 3—or any other text of Scripture—does not even hint at sola scriptura. It says Scripture is inspired and necessary to equip “the man of God,” but never does it say Scripture alone is all anyone needs. We’ll come back to this text in particular later. But in my experience as a Protestant, it was my attempt to defend this bedrock teaching of Protestantism that led me to conclude: sola scriptura is 1) unreasonable 2) unbiblical and 3) unworkable.
      Sola Scriptura is Unreasonable
      When defending sola scriptura, the Protestant will predictably appeal to his sole authority—Scripture. This is a textbook example of the logical fallacy of circular reasoning which betrays an essential problem with the doctrine itself. One cannot prove the inspiration of a text from the text itself. The Book of Mormon, the Hindu Vedas, writings of Mary Baker Eddy, the Koran, and other books claim inspiration. This does not make them inspired. One must prove the point outside of the text itself to avoid the fallacy of circular reasoning.
      Thus, the question remains: how do we know the various books of the Bible are inspired and therefore canonical? And remember: the Protestant must use the principle of sola scriptura in the process.
      II Tim. 3:16 is not a valid response to the question. The problems are manifold. Beyond the fact of circular reasoning, for example, I would point out the fact that this verse says all Scripture is inspired tells us nothing of what the canon consists. Just recently, I was speaking with a Protestant inquirer about this issue and he saw my point. He then said words to the effect of, “I believe the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth as Jesus said in Jn. 16:13. The Holy Spirit guided the early Christians and helped them to gather the canon of Scripture and declare it to be the inspired word of God. God would not leave us without his word to guide us.”
      That answer is much more Catholic than Protestant! Yes, Jn. 16:13 does say the Spirit will lead the apostles—and by allusion, the Church—into all truth. But this verse has nothing to say about sola scriptura. Nor does it say a word about the nature or number of books in the canon. Catholics certainly agree that the Holy Spirit guided the early Christians to canonize the Scriptures because the Catholic Church teaches that there is an authoritative Church guided by the Holy Spirit. The obvious problem is my Protestant friend did not use sola scriptura as his guiding principle to arrive at his conclusion. How does, for example, Jn. 16:13 tell us that Hebrews was written by an apostolic writer and that it is inspired of God? We would ultimately have to rely on the infallibility of whoever “the Holy Spirit” is guiding to canonize the Bible so that they could not mishear what the Spirit was saying about which books of the Bible are truly inspired.
      In order to put this argument of my friend into perspective, can you imagine if a Catholic made a similar claim to demonstrate, say, Mary to be the Mother of God? “We believe the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth and guided the early Christians to declare this truth.” I can almost hear the response. “Show me in the Bible where Mary is the Mother of God! I don’t want to hear about God guiding the Church!” Wouldn’t the same question remain for the Protestant concerning the canon? “Show me in the Bible where the canon of Scripture is, what the criterion for the canon is, who can and cannot write Scripture, etc.”
      Will the Circle be Unbroken?
      The Protestant response at this point is often an attempt to use the same argument against the Catholic. “How do you know the Scriptures are inspired? Your reasoning is just as circular because you say the Church is infallible because the inspired Scriptures say so and then say the Scriptures are inspired and infallible because the Church says so!”
      The Catholic Church’s position on inspiration is not circular. We do not say “the Church is infallible because the inspired Scriptures say so, and the Scriptures are inspired because the infallible Church says so.” That would be a kind of circular reasoning. The Church was established historically and functioned as the infallible spokesperson for the Lord decades before the New Testament was written. The Church is infallible because Jesus said so.
      Having said that, it is true that we know the Scriptures to be inspired because the Church has told us so. That is also an historical fact. However, this is not circular reasoning. When the Catholic approaches Scripture, he or she begins with the Bible as an historical document, not as inspired. As any reputable historian will tell you, the New Testament is the most accurate and verifiable historical document in all of ancient history. To deny the substance of the historical documents recorded therein would be absurd. However, one cannot deduce from this that they are inspired. There are many accurate historical documents that are not inspired. However, the Scriptures do give us accurate historical information whether one holds to their inspiration or not. Further, this testimony of the Bible is backed up by hundreds of works by early Christians and non-Christian writers like Suetonius, Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, Josephus, and more. It is on this basis that we can say it is an historical fact that Jesus lived, died, and was reported to be resurrected from the dead by over 500 eyewitnesses. Many of these eyewitnesses went to their deaths testifying to the veracity of the Christ-event (see Lk. 1:1-4, Jn. 21:18-19, 24-25, Acts 1:1-11, I Cr. 15:1-8).
      Now, what do we find when we examine the historical record? Jesus Christ—as a matter of history–established a Church, not a book, to be the foundation of the Christian Faith (see Mt. 16:15-18; 18:15-18. Cf. Eph. 2:20; 3:10,20-21; 4:11-15; I Tm. 3:15; Hb. 13:7,17, etc.). He said of his Church, “He who hears you hears me and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me” (Lk. 10:16). The many books that comprise what we call the Bible never tell us crucial truths such as the fact that they are inspired, who can and cannot be the human authors of them, who authored them at all, or, as I said before, what the canon of Scripture is in the first place. And this is just to name a few examples. What is very clear historically is that Jesus established a kingdom with a hierarchy and authority to speak for him (see Lk. 20:29-32, Mt. 10:40, 28:18-20). It was members of this Kingdom—the Church—that would write the Scripture, preserve its many texts and eventually canonize it. The Scriptures cannot write or canonize themselves. To put it simply, reason clearly rejects sola scriptura as a self-refuting principle because one cannot determine what the “scriptura” is using the principle of sola scriptura.
      Sola Scriptura is Unbiblical
      Let us now consider the most common text used by Protestants to “prove” sola scriptura, II Tm. 3:16, which I quoted above:
      All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
      The problem with using this text as such is threefold: 1. Strictly speaking, it does not speak of the New Testament at all. 2. It does not claim Scripture to be the sole rule of faith for Christians. 3. The Bible teaches oral Tradition to be on a par with and just as necessary as the written Tradition, or Scripture.
      1. What’s Old is Not New
      Let us examine the context of the passage by reading the two preceding verses:
      But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood (italics added) you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.
      In context, this passage does not refer to the New Testament at all. None of the New Testament books had been written when St. Timothy was a child! To claim this verse in order to authenticate a book, say, the book of Revelation, when it had most likely not even been written yet, is more than a stretch. That is going far beyond what the text actually claims.
      2. The Trouble With Sola
      As a Protestant, I was guilty of seeing more than one sola in Scripture that simply did not exist. The Bible clearly teaches justification by faith. And we Catholics believe it. However, we do not believe in justification by faith alone because, among many other reasons, the Bible says, we are “justified by works and not by faith alone” (James 2:24, emphasis added). Analogously, when the Bible says Scripture is inspired and profitable for “the man of God,” to be “equipped for every good work,” we Catholics believe it. However, the text of II Tim. 3:16 never says Scripture alone. There is no sola to be found here either! Even if we granted II Tm. 3:16 was talking about all of Scripture, it never claims Scripture to be the sole rule of faith. A rule of faith, to be sure! But not the sole rule of faith.
      James 1:4 illustrates clearly the problem with Protestant exegesis of II Tim. 3:16:
      And let steadfastness (patience) have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.
      If we apply the same principle of exegesis to this text that the Protestant does to II Tm. 3:16 we would have to say that all we need is patience to be perfected. We don’t need faith, hope, charity, the Church, baptism, etc.
      Of course, any Christian would immediately say this is absurd. And of course it is. But James’s emphasis on the central importance of patience is even stronger than St. Paul’s emphasis on Scripture. The key is to see that there is not a sola to be found in either text. Sola patientia would be just as much an error as is sola scriptura.
      3. The Tradition of God is the Word of God
      Not only is the Bible silent when it comes to sola scriptura, but Scripture is remarkably plain in teaching oral Tradition to be just as much the word of God as is Scripture. In what most scholars believe was the first book written in the New Testament, St. Paul said:
      And we also thank God… that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God… (I Thess. 2:13)
      II Thess. 2:15 adds:
      So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions you have been taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.
      According to St. Paul, the spoken word from the apostles was just as much the word of God as was the later written word.
      Sola Scriptura is Unworkable
      When it comes to the tradition of Protestantism—sola scriptura—the silence of the text of Scripture is deafening. When it comes to the true authority of Scripture and Tradition, the Scriptures are clear. And when it comes to the teaching and governing authority of the Church, the biblical text is equally as clear:
      If your brother sins against you go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone … But if he does not listen, take one or two others with you … If he refuses to listen … tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. (Mt. 18:15-17)
      According to Scripture, the Church—not the Bible alone—is the final court of appeal for the people of God in matters of faith and discipline. But isn’t it also telling that since the Reformation of just ca. 480 years ago—a reformation claiming sola scriptura as its formal principle—there are now over 33,000 denominations that have derived from it?
      For 1,500 years, Christianity saw just a few enduring schisms (the Monophysites, Nestorians, the Orthodox, and a very few others). Now in just 480 years we have this? I hardly think that when Jesus prophesied there would be “one shepherd and one fold” in Jn. 10:16, this is what he had in mind. It seems quite clear to me that not only is sola scriptura unreasonable and unbiblical, but it is unworkable. The proof is in the puddin’!
      If you liked this post and you would like to dive deeper into this topic and more, click here.
       
      https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/the-protestant-achilles-heel
    • Од JESSY,
      Iako se vlasnici trude oko dresure i obuke, događa se da neki ljubimac ima prejaki karakter sa kojim čovek ne može da se izbori i tada mogu da budu opasni po okolinu Autor: Dragoljub Stevanović (Фото Пиксабеј) Da li postoje opasni i bezopasni psi pitanje je na koje nije uvek lako odgovoriti. Možda bi, kažu kinolozi, bilo bolje reći zahtevni i manje zahtevni. Jer, ako se i negde pogreši kod vaspitanja čivave, pudlice ili džek rasel terijera, čak i kada vas takav pas ugrize, posledice neće biti velike. Malo lajanja ili neprijatnog glockanja, ali slučaj neće dobiti drastične razmere.
      Međutim, kada je reč o takozvanim opasnim rasama, situacija nije naivna. Ako je vlasnik neodgovoran, pas ne nosi korpu, nije socijalizovan, a uz to nosi i epitet borbenog, može biti i smrtnih ishoda, kao nedavno u Pančevu, kada je staford terijer usmrtio majku vlasnika i teško povredio njenu rođaku.
      Maltretirani najopasniji
      To je ponovo pokrenulo brojna pitanje ko je kriv – vlasnik ili „loša genetika”, da li postoji „agresivna crta” kod pasa. Miloš Jević iz Kinološkog društva „Polet” objašnjava da ne možemo okriviti samo jednu rasu i svrstati je u opasne pse. Ima, kaže, divnih staforda koji su apsolutno socijalizovani i ne predstavljaju ama baš nikakvu opasnost.
      – Problem može da nastane kada su vlasnici pasa nemarni, a posledica su zapušteni psi koji, bez kontakta sa ljudima i psima, često maltretirani, uglavnom provode vreme na lancu i u kavezu. Takvi psi imaju mnogo veće preduslove da budu opasni po okolinu – kaže Jević.
      Zakon, inače, definiše šta je opasan pas i njihovi vlasnici moraju proći posebnu obuku i test socijalizacije. To prolaze i svi drugi psi koji su naneli teške telesne povrede ljudima ili psima.
      – Ponekad se događa da se vlasnici trude oko svojih ljubimaca, ali prosto neki pas ima prejaki karakter sa kojim ne mogu da se izbore i on postaje gazda u kući! Tada se uglavnom javljaju problemi: pas se suprotstavlja vlasniku, to je u početku režanje, a može doći i do ujeda – ističe naš sagovornik.
      Genetika, takođe, igra veliku ulogu. Pre nego što nabave četvoronožnog prijatelja, budući vlasnici bi trebalo da saznaju odakle on dolazi, ko su mu roditelji, treba naći odgovornog i proverenog odgajivača.
      – Tako će dobiti važne informacije o naslednim bolestima i karakteru psa. Takođe bi trebalo izabrati i rasu koja odgovara karakteru vlasnika – kaže naš sagovornik, koji ima dosta iskustva u obučavanju i dresuri pasa.
    • Од Ромејац,
      Several hundred people were received into the holy Orthodox Church by the Mystery of Baptism in India recently, including 47 Protestant pastors who have been telling their communities about the true faith.
      A missionary team, consisting of Fr. Athanasius Kone of the Holy Theotokos of Iveron Russian Orthodox Church in Hawaii, Papa Ephraim, formerly of St. Anthony’s Monastery in Arizona and currently of St. Nilus Skete in Alaska, Fr. George Maximov of Moscow, Sister Paraskevi of St. Nilus Skete, and Sister Ioanna and Anastasia from Moscow, spent about two weeks in India, preaching and teaching about holy Orthodoxy and baptizing 350 people into Christ.
      About 1,000 people had expressed interest in being baptized, but various issues led to only several hundred being baptized during the trip. A detailed description of the entire trip came be found at Papa Ephraim’s Orthodox River blog.
      Fr. George Maximov has also published a video about the trip, including footage of the Baptisms and Chrismations:
      As Papa Ephraim explains, a book by Fr. Seraphim Bell, Understanding the Rich Heritage of the Orthodox Church, was translated into the local Telugu language in November, and then Fr. Seraphim was able to visit India for two weeks in December and lead intensive catechetical courses for 60 pastors who then preached to their parishioners about Orthodoxy, and thus many were ready to receive Baptism.

      Other texts translated or being translated include The Catechism of St. Nikolai Velimirovich, Typica, the Baptismal service, the Creed, the Lord’s Prayer, 5 small books of Fr. Daniel Sysoev, and elements from The Truth of our Faith by Elder Cleopa.
      The Baptisms occurred over the span of the two-week trip, some days with groups of 100 people, some days with only 10 or 12. Most of them were celebrated at an old orphanage owned by Fr. Wesley, who has known Fr. Athanasius for several decades and who was responsible for making most of the arrangements for the trip.
      In addition to celebrating Baptisms, the group also preached and taught about repentance, Tradition, monasticism, icons, Church singing, how to bake prosphora, etc, and they served the Liturgy several times. As Papa Ephraim details, language issues made everything a little chaotic, as did resistance, sometimes fierce and almost violent, from local Hindus and also Catholics.

      Some of the 1,000 people who had planned to be baptized were deterred by the strong reactions from other Indians, and about 500 of them live in remote villages where a terrorist group has been especially violent lately, taking hostages, often killing them.
      As Papa Ephraim writes, the demons of course resist the good work that is being done in India, and their presence is greater there due to the millennia of idolatry there, but, with God’s help, hundreds of souls were brought into the saving enclosure of the Church.
      http://orthochristian.com/119708.html?fbclid=IwAR2dsy7G_iR8FH_5kV2xtlzNahtHn5mF-JEuEWlXYmIYh4P5ZmdAzRjPaog
    • Од Heraklit,
      Vaš stav o eventualnim izborima na proleće,za koga ćete glasati ili bojkotovati i zašto 
    • Од Милан Ракић,
      Jedna diplomatkinja mi je ovih dana rekla da joj prilaze neki ljudi, često su to umjetnici, koji joj se povjere i kažu joj ispod glasa: ”Znate, ja sam Srbin/Srpkinja”. Diplomatkinja mi je zatim kazala da tim ljudima odgovara: ”I kakve to ima veze?” Zapravo, razgovarali smo o tome da se mnogi Srbi, premda su umjetnici ili neke druge javne osobe, ponašaju neprikladno srameći se priznati etničko porijeklo.

      Ja taj problem nemam: mene nije sram kazati da sam Srbin i da sam, što se duhovnog života tiče, pravoslavac. A vi ćete sada kazati da je jasno da nemam taj osjećaj srama jer nisam ni Srbin ni pravoslavac. Premda ću vam odmah reći: A kako vi znate da nisam ni Srbin ni pravoslavac? Odakle vama pravo da mi niječete moje srpstvo i moje pravoslavlje?
      Grozim se onih koji sebi uzimaju pravo diktirati drugima što imaju biti i kako se moraju izjašnjavati. Pa ću onda kazati da smatram groznim oblikom šovinizma i rasizma izjavu predsjednika HSS-a Kreše Beljaka koji Zlatka Hasanbegovića smatra izdajicom bošnjaštva, jer se rečeni desni (pa makar nekima bio i ekstremno desni) političar, koliko mi je poznato, smatra Hrvatom koji je i musliman. A onda ću dodati i da se šovinizam i slični oblici netolerancije šire u našim medijima, pa čitam kolumnu neke gospođe koja si daje pravo vrednovati tko je izvorniji Zagrepčanec: Bandić ili Hasanbegović?
      Mene nije sram kazati da sam Srbin i da sam, što se duhovnog života tiče, pravoslavac. A vi ćete sada kazati da je jasno da nemam taj osjećaj srama jer nisam ni Srbin ni pravoslavac. Premda ću vam odmah reći: A kako vi znate da nisam ni Srbin ni pravoslavac? Odakle vama pravo da mi niječete moje srpstvo i moje pravoslavlje?
      Sve je to užasno, neprihvatljivo i gadljivo.
      I pustite me na miru ako danas, ili ovaj tjedan ili tijekom užasavajućeg i kičastog zagrebačkog Adventa želim biti Srbin i pravoslavac. Ili ako dogodine odem dr. Krausu i rabinu Preleviću s molbom da mi se izvrši obrezivanje i primi u vjeru Mojsija?
      Koji se vama vrag događa? Ja želim biti Srbin i pravoslavac i baš mi paše kada mi stižu poruke u inbox ili kad mi se u komentarima ispod članaka (u kojima se inače o meni govori) poručuje da sam ”čedo”, ”Jovan” ili da se pokupim u tri p…e materine, što će reći u Srbiju.
      Ono što mene i dalje ohrabruje je stav kojim je vladika Porfirije Perić započeo i nastavlja svoju službu: ”Naglašavam, ne postoji alternativa – moramo učiniti sve da prihvatimo jedni druge onakvima kakvi jesmo”. Pozdravljajući ”sve građane Hrvatske i Slovenije – pravoslavne, katolike i svih drugih vjeroispovijesti, ali i agnostike ili ateiste”, mitropolit Porfirije je naglasio: ”Dolazim otvorena srca nastojeći primijeniti tri načela – dijalog, praštanje i pomirenje, uz poruke da moramo prihvatiti jedni druge onakvima kakvi jesmo.”

      Onaj glumac ili ona glumica, da spomenemo samo neke, koji se srame svog srpstva, možda i pravoslavnog krštenja, meni su poziv da budem Srbinom i pravoslavcem. Ali, zašto to tajiti? Ja, kad mi dođe potreba da uđem u crkvu da se pomolim i saberem, uđem u Saborni hram Preobraženja Gospodnjeg u Zagrebu na Cvjetnom trgu. Nemam problem ući ni u druge crkve, ali ova mi je u Zagrebu najdraža. U njoj, by the way, ljudi ne maze pseudosvece koji su bili suputnici ustaškim koljačima.
      Sada kad imam novu knjigu u knjižarama i izlozima (”Povratak Adolfa Pilsela”, VBZ) i kada mi mnogi prilaze da mi čestitaju zbog ispravnog načina tumačenja hrvatstva, zbog toga što sam opet, možda i najjasnije do sada, opisao nužnost distanciranja od nacizma i ustaštva, ja im se zahvaljujem s nelagodom jer kako da im pojasnim da sam ipak Srbin i pravoslavac?
      I pustite me na miru ako danas, ili ovaj tjedan ili tijekom užasavajućeg i kičastog zagrebačkog Adventa želim biti Srbin i pravoslavac. Ili ako dogodine odem dr. Krausu i rabinu Preleviću s molbom da mi se izvrši obrezivanje i primi u vjeru Mojsija?
      Kada mnogopoštovana Jagoda Buić svojim bliskim prijateljima i konfidentima Igoru Zidiću, Tonku Maroeviću i Zdravku Zimu tumači da se sprema održati predavanje Budimiru Lončaru jer što on to ima tražiti u društvu unuka suradnika Gestapa i sina tjelohranitelja Ante Pavelića, u meni raste osjećaj sažaljenja prema gospođi koja kasni jedno tri desetljeća (da, baš tako znaju biti neinformirani ti duhom osiromašeni Hrvati) u saznanju da sam ja odavno, bit će eto i više od trideset godina, napustio hrvatstvo kao profesiju da bih obgrlio kršćanstvo kao formu mentis.
      I baš to kršćanstvo me otjeralo u stanove Srba koje je Gojko Šušak bacao van na ulice ne bih li letio s njihovim namještajem kroz prozor. Upravo me to kršćanstvo dovelo do mnogih zapaljenih sela, pa tako i do sela Komić kod Udbine da sahranimo ostatke najstarije žrtve postolujnih strahota u režiji Franje Tuđmana i tog istog Šuška. 93-godišnju Savu Lavrnjić smo pronašli tek u veljači 1996. zavezanu žicom za sina i bačenu ispred njene kuće.
      Ne mogu ja drugačije. I znam da me to košta. Pretpostavljam da mnogi ne znaju što učiniti sa Srbinom i pravoslavcem koji je oženio (podunavsku) Njemicu, k tome i protestankinju koja dolazi iz filipinske prašume. Ja njih razumijem. Kažu da je teško biti Srbin i pravoslavac.
      Premda to uopće ne bi nikome trebalo biti breme. Dapače. Veli sveti apostol Pavao (Gal 3, 28) da smo svi jednaki, da su naše razlike ništavne ako smo jedno u Bogu. Pa i ovo: “Uistinu, mi smo svi – bilo Židovi bilo Grci, bilo robovi bilo slobodnjaci – kršteni jednim Duhom u jedno tijelo. I svi smo napojeni jednim Duhom” (1 Kor 12, 13).
      Smeta li te brutalnost hrvatske policije prema migrantima i izbjeglicama na granici s BiH? Budi Srbin iz kolone kod Bosanskog Petrovca koju zrakoplovi HRZ tuku mitraljezima.
      Boli te srce kad gledaš djecu migranata i izbjeglica pod snijegom na otvorenom? Otiđi u Jasenovac ili u ustaški logor u Sisku i stani među kozaračku djecu, onu istu kojoj se kao hijene smiješe Velimir Bujanec, Vlado Košić, Roman Leljak, Jakov Sedlar, Igor Vukić…
      Zašto to tajiti? Ja, kad mi dođe potreba da uđem u crkvu da se pomolim i saberem, uđem u Saborni hram Preobraženja Gospodnjeg u Zagrebu na Cvjetnom trgu. Nemam problem ući ni u druge crkve, ali ova mi je u Zagrebu najdraža. U njoj, by the way, ljudi ne maze pseudosvece koji su bili suputnici ustaškim koljačima
      Pozvao bi sirijsku obitelj na božićni ručak? Svakako, i ne zaboravi pozvati zabačene bake Jovanke po Lici, Baniji i Kordunu.
      Pamtim da se na početku ratnih sukoba devedesetih često spominjao slučaj vukovarskog novinara Stjepana Penića, mučki ubijenog i izmasakriranog u Dalju kod Osijeka. Pokojni franjevac Ljudevit Maračić podsjetio me da je Penićeva supruga u razgovoru za Veritas, mjesečnik franjevaca konventualaca, u svoje i u ime svojih triju kćeri dotadašnjim susjedima i ubojicama svoga muža poručila: ”Mi vas ne mrzimo i sve vam opraštamo!”
      Poruka gospođe Penić, nekima možda daleka ili paradoksalna, pravi je kršćanski odgovor i dokaz da u ratu nisu srozane sve vrijednosti. Fra Ljudevit je s pravom naglasio da je odupiranje mržnji pravi herojski čin koji zahtijeva veliku samozatajnost. Kad ne bismo bili toliko na udaru političkog primitivizma i onih koji svoju moralnu prazninu i duhovni nemir pretvaraju u osvetničku hajku na ”krivce”, shvatili bismo da mnogo takvih heroja živi oko nas.
      Ali meni nije dovoljno to što ljudi znaju i žele praštati ili trpjeti uvrede i prozivanja. Meni je od životne važnosti što mogu biti Srbin i pravoslavac.
      I kad bolje razmislim, vidim da nisam napustio ovu duhovno opustošenu i ekonomski razvaljenu zemlju jer pronalazim neku čaroliju i atrakciju u tome da budem Srbin i pravoslavac.
      Naše područje je negativan primjer koji smo ovdje stvorili svi mi zajedno. Mislim, zajedno s ocem Danilom Ljubotinom, da se svi mi koji pružamo ruku jedni drugima u svakodnevnom životu želimo izdignuti iz naših ograničenja, ali je potrebno iscijeliti duhovne rane na nekom drugom planu koje su nanijele jedna Crkva drugoj, jedan narod drugomu u vjekovima i vremenima kada su bile/i u sukobu.
      Kada mnogopoštovana Jagoda Buić svojim bliskim prijateljima i konfidentima Igoru Zidiću, Tonku Maroeviću i Zdravku Zimu tumači da se sprema održati predavanje Budimiru Lončaru jer što on to ima tražiti u društvu unuka suradnika Gestapa i sina tjelohranitelja Ante Pavelića, u meni raste osjećaj sažaljenja prema toj gospođi
      Apetiti prema moćima ovoga svijeta naglo su narasli, gramzljivost nas ždere, razara iznutra, čini nas svadljivima, razjaruje naš ego koji poprima nekontrolirane oblike. Ljudi nisu svjesni koliko su smiješni i ružni kad njima vlada egoizam.
      Mržnja se prodaje naveliko, na mržnji se grade politike, izborne kampanje, odnosi u društvu…
      Tražio sam neki dan tople papuče s anatomskim uloškom da poklonim supruzi. Dogodilo se to u nekoj apoteci. Bilo je više ljudi. Apotekarka mi pruža jednu papuču. Pipam, ”zgodno”, velim, a onda neoprezno, ali normalnim glasom kažem ”Made in Serbia”. Istog časa se društvo okrenulo prema meni, a apotekarka se krenula ispričavati. Pomislio sam joj reći: ”Ne brinite, ja sam Srbin i pravoslavac”. Zaključio sam da ću je još više zbuniti, pa sam zašutio.
      Pogriješio sam. Jer ne vidim drugi izlaz nego da Hrvati budu Srbi i da Srbi budu Hrvati.

Све поруке на форуму, осим званичних саопштења Српске Православне Цркве, су искључиво лична мишљења чланова форума 'Живе Речи Утехе' и уредништво не сноси никакву материјалну и кривичну одговорност услед погрешних информација. Објављивање информација са сајта у некомерцијалне сврхе могуће је само уз навођење URL адресе дискусије. За све друге видове дистрибуције потребно је имати изричиту дозволу администратора Поука.орг и/или аутора порука.  Коментари се на сајту Поуке.орг објављују у реалном времену и Администрација се не може сматрати одговорним за написано.  Забрањен је говор мржње, псовање, вређање и клеветање. Такав садржај ће бити избрисан чим буде примећен, а аутори могу бити пријављени надлежним институцијама. Чланови имају опцију пријављивања недоличних порука, те непримерен садржај могу пријавити Администрацији. Такође, ако имате проблема са регистрацијом или заборављеном шифром за сајтове Поуке.орг и Црква.нет, пошаљите нам поруку у контакт форми да Вам помогнемо у решавању проблема.

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